Train travel despair

Pendodave
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Re: Train travel despair

Postby Pendodave » 11 Sep 2020, 8:44pm

I was always a bit sceptical of the hangers, but recently watched one of the vintage touring information films referenced elsewhere on the forum and discovered that hanging a bike by a hook was recommended by the "international cycle touring association"...
Who knew.

Re. The new west coast stock, I've put out a couple of enquiries and will report back if I hear anything.

mikeymo
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Re: Train travel despair

Postby mikeymo » 11 Sep 2020, 10:23pm

Pendodave wrote:I was always a bit sceptical of the hangers, but recently watched one of the vintage touring information films referenced elsewhere on the forum and discovered that hanging a bike by a hook was recommended by the "international cycle touring association"...
Who knew.


Well, I suppose it would at least be a regular check of my front QR skewers (front facing drop-outs).

With a 16.5kg bike, full length rear mudguard, rack, panniers (will they stay on?), it looks bloody difficult to me. And there will be plenty of people without experience of chucking a bike about, never mind the upper body strength, who wouldn't want to do it. You know, the "new cyclists" that are supposed to be encouraged to get into cycling as healthy low carbon transport.

Bikes on trains should be wheeled on, without any lifting, stored upright for the journey, and wheeled off. The "international cycle touring association" can say what they like, new cyclist and middle aged out-of-condition office worker Evelyn just won't do it unless it's that easy.

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mjr
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Re: Train travel despair

Postby mjr » 12 Sep 2020, 12:23am

mikeymo wrote:panniers (will they stay on?)

No. Panniers should be removed and placed in the luggage racks in sight of your seat. This has been the official instruction on every train I've ever taken my bike on (several countries but I've never used a goods van) because otherwise you reduce the number of bikes that can fit in the space, as well as basically leaving luggage unattended (boom!) but of course you can usually get away with leaving them on when it's quiet and you sit nearby.
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Sweep
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Re: Train travel despair

Postby Sweep » 12 Sep 2020, 7:29am

mikeymo wrote:Is train+bike integration any better in any of the European countries that have more cycling?

n.

I'd draw a distinction between sports cycling and general cycling. The bit of italy i've cycled in a lot, you have to pay for your bike on trains. That's not integrated at all. Can't remember if you pay for the bike as a full person making the trip or half a person. Irony was that most of the trains in that bit of italy were pretty empty, folk preferred their cars. I avoided it by using a folder, though once had to pay for that.
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PH
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Re: Train travel despair

Postby PH » 12 Sep 2020, 10:18am

mikeymo wrote: The "international cycle touring association" can say what they like

That was a quote from a 1950's film, I haven't watched it recently, but I'm pretty sure there were rail staff on hand to do the lifting and hooking up.
On my first Scottish trip some years ago, bike loading on the train back to Glasgow from Oban was done by the guard, you handed the bike over at the carriage door. It used to be the same on the Caladonian sleeper.
I don't know what the current advice is or what happened to the international cycle touring association, I'm pretty sure no cycling body supports the idea of those little cupboards that you can't wrestle most bikes into. I haven't used the newest trains from Hitachi, the pictures are enough to know my touring bikes won't fit. We could do with a database to know what bike storage is available on which routes.

mikeymo
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Re: Train travel despair

Postby mikeymo » 12 Sep 2020, 10:45am

Sweep wrote:
mikeymo wrote:Is train+bike integration any better in any of the European countries that have more cycling?

n.

I'd draw a distinction between sports cycling and general cycling. The bit of italy i've cycled in a lot, you have to pay for your bike on trains. That's not integrated at all.


I was talking about physical integration, really. How easy it is, or not, to make the sort of journey I described. I don't mind paying for stuff I use, and to get trains better set up for bikes is going to cost money. The world doesn't owe me a living, or free transport for my bicycle on trains.

Pendodave
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Re: Train travel despair

Postby Pendodave » 12 Sep 2020, 11:19am

For info, though it should probably have its own nicely curated and indexed thread, here is the cupboard on the LNER Hitachi :
20200904_125917.jpg

mikeymo
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Re: Train travel despair

Postby mikeymo » 12 Sep 2020, 12:09pm

Pendodave wrote:For info, though it should probably have its own nicely curated and indexed thread, here is the cupboard on the LNER Hitachi :
20200904_125917.jpg


Yeah, that's really going to encourage people to get into cycling, isn't it?

Pendodave
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Re: Train travel despair

Postby Pendodave » 12 Sep 2020, 12:19pm

mikeymo wrote:
Pendodave wrote:For info, though it should probably have its own nicely curated and indexed thread, here is the cupboard on the LNER Hitachi :
20200904_125917.jpg


Yeah, that's really going to encourage people to get into cycling, isn't it?

Well, I have to say, I'm pretty new to this cycle touring lark (a covid newbie), and it hasn't put me off at all. I think if you're going to use a bike for leisure purposes (especially touring), you're probably the sort of person that treats things as a challenge, rather than a problem. If I've got a trip that I fancy, having an awkward couple of minutes in a broom cupboard will likely be the least of my worries.

As for commuting, that's a whole different ball game. Has there ever been a solution for the numbers that would be involved, and what would it look like? The TFL bike scheme is probably the best solution for anyone without the means to acquire a brompton. But really it would involve a complete reconfiguration of work/home proximity.

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Re: Train travel despair

Postby mikeymo » 12 Sep 2020, 12:54pm

Pendodave wrote:
mikeymo wrote:
Pendodave wrote:For info, though it should probably have its own nicely curated and indexed thread, here is the cupboard on the LNER Hitachi :
20200904_125917.jpg


Yeah, that's really going to encourage people to get into cycling, isn't it?

Well, I have to say, I'm pretty new to this cycle touring lark (a covid newbie), and it hasn't put me off at all. I think if you're going to use a bike for leisure purposes (especially touring), you're probably the sort of person that treats things as a challenge, rather than a problem. If I've got a trip that I fancy, having an awkward couple of minutes in a broom cupboard will likely be the least of my worries.

As for commuting, that's a whole different ball game. Has there ever been a solution for the numbers that would be involved, and what would it look like? The TFL bike scheme is probably the best solution for anyone without the means to acquire a brompton. But really it would involve a complete reconfiguration of work/home proximity.


Yes, sorry. I guess I meant commuting or "general" cycling. How did you get on getting your bike into the hanger thing? I'd be interested to hear your experience - sometime I'll probably try this myself, but my bike's 16.5 kg with full mudguards.

You're a man, yes? It isn't sexist at all to point out that women, ON THE WHOLE, have less upper body strength than men. Imagine a woman in middle age, who isn't used to activities that involve lugging heavy stuff about. Who maybe buys a IGH bike with a rack and full length guards, so that she can bike to work, using a combination of bike and train. Now look at that hanging rack from her point of view.

That's the point I was making, sorry I wasn't a bit more clear.

I agree, mass cycle/train combined journeys would need a whole rethink. But actually ScotRail has got these:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-50168117

So it's perfectly possible to accomodate lots of bikes on trains. That looks like 16 racks to me. One of those on every train would be transformative. But if that's possible with all rolling stock I haven't a clue, no doubt somebody with more knowledge could say.

thirdcrank
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Re: Train travel despair

Postby thirdcrank » 12 Sep 2020, 1:24pm

Re hanging up bikes by a hook, it's been posted before but I think it's worth repeating:-

It's easier to present the rear wheel to the hook than the front, which flops about.

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Re: Train travel despair

Postby PH » 12 Sep 2020, 1:31pm

Pendodave wrote:
mikeymo wrote:
Yeah, that's really going to encourage people to get into cycling, isn't it?

Well, I have to say, I'm pretty new to this cycle touring lark (a covid newbie), and it hasn't put me off at all.

I'm glad it doesn't put you off, though there are plenty that it will. It doesn't stop me using the train, but it does make me consider which journeys and if there are other options. It sometimes results in me taking the best bike to travel with rather than the best for the cycling. You were lucky in the instance of the photo as you had the broom cupboard to yourself, imagine if you'd had to share it, or the worst case scenario where you've loaded your bike first, and someone has added theirs to the outer position, but you're getting off before them... My touring bikes won't fit on the lower hook, one of them probably won't fit on either, the tyre size won't fit the hook. However happy you are to accept the challenge, if bikes don't fit the purpose made bike storage space it's a fail.

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Sweep
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Re: Train travel despair

Postby Sweep » 12 Sep 2020, 7:12pm

mikeymo wrote:
Sweep wrote:
mikeymo wrote:Is train+bike integration any better in any of the European countries that have more cycling?

n.

I'd draw a distinction between sports cycling and general cycling. The bit of italy i've cycled in a lot, you have to pay for your bike on trains. That's not integrated at all.


I was talking about physical integration, really. How easy it is, or not, to make the sort of journey I described. I don't mind paying for stuff I use, and to get trains better set up for bikes is going to cost money. The world doesn't owe me a living, or free transport for my bicycle on trains.


Well as far as I am concerned free bike carriage on trains IS a pre-requisite for any realistic form of integration.

Along with decent carriage facilities on the trains.

So it's a fair measure of a country's willingness to address issues of integrated transport.

Along with basic things like decent bike stands in towns and cities.

Charging a separate journey ticket for a bike is taking the micturate.

Folk aren't as far as I am aware in Italy obliged to pay for their suitcase/d as a person/people.

It may have been changed, but I do know that - glory of glories - they used to have ONE DAY a year in Italy when bikes COULD be taken for free on trains. A city cycling group I used to ride with sometimes made a special day trip to give thanks for this gift from heaven.

It's also true to say (and I know there are exceptions, Ferrara for instance) that bikes aren't much integrated into people's lives in Italy - many folk wouldn't be seen dead on a bike doing anything as humble as getting around/shopping.
Last edited by Sweep on 12 Sep 2020, 7:24pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sweep
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Re: Train travel despair

Postby Sweep » 12 Sep 2020, 7:21pm

Pendodave wrote:For info, though it should probably have its own nicely curated and indexed thread, here is the cupboard on the LNER Hitachi :
20200904_125917.jpg

That looks doable, with a struggle, for one bike.
But I note that there is a second bike space.
For two bikes that's a non starter.
Which is why I am not going anywhere near East Coast for the forseeable.

I prefer the approach of Northern or LondonNorthwestern or many of the train companies in and out of London - no great cycle provision as such but they are easy/civilised about you turning up with one on an off-peak train and sorting yourself.

Thanks for the pic anyway.
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mikeymo
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Re: Train travel despair

Postby mikeymo » 12 Sep 2020, 7:51pm

Sweep wrote:Well as far as I am concerned free bike carriage on trains IS a pre-requisite for any realistic form of integration.


Yes, and the other passengers won't mind subsidising your chosen method of transport at all. Will they?