Page 1 of 2

Road condition - What can I do about this?

Posted: 14 Sep 2020, 6:53pm
by fastpedaller
Attached is a photo I took yesterday of a road in Norfolk. I've reported (via fillthathole) about the condition of said road several times over the last 5 years, but all that occurs is a dollop of tar gets put in one of the very big holes. I'm of the opinion that Norfolk County Council just either don't understand (or don't want to) that putting chipping on this (and many other roads) traps seeds which then give the problem in the photo. I've tried explaining to NCC that if there is heavy rain a cyclist is left with the choice of riding in the river at the edge (where there may be hidden potholes - and certainly have been on this road) or chancing their luck on the grassy bit! Anyone know how to progress this?

Re: Road condition - What can I do about this?

Posted: 14 Sep 2020, 6:57pm
by Jdsk
Just done my FillThatHoles for the day.

How about talking to a councillor?

Jonathan

Re: Road condition - What can I do about this?

Posted: 15 Sep 2020, 7:59am
by atlas_shrugged
The core issue IMHO is lack of drainage. There used to be a chap in each village who was responsible for drainage and keeping waterways clear. Without this preventative maintenance happening a whole series of preventable road repairs have to be done on a regular basis. Maybe the solution is localisation.

Re: Road condition - What can I do about this?

Posted: 15 Sep 2020, 4:22pm
by pwa
To be honest a grass strip down the middle doesn't bother me at all. Pot-holes do, but not the grass strip. If anything the grass strip indicates that you are on the quietest of quiet lanes, which is why the lane is so low down the list of priorities. Isn't it inevitable that the more traffic-dense roads get the most attention and the least used roads get the least attention? To some extent I accept minor defects like a grass strip or a bit of cow muck as part of being in the countryside, and it is only when I get dangerous pot-holes that I think something needs to be done.

Anyone else got some tolerance for the rough and ready nature of some lanes, or am I on my own in this?

Re: Road condition - What can I do about this?

Posted: 15 Sep 2020, 7:41pm
by slowster
pwa wrote:am I on my own in this?

Nope.

Re: Road condition - What can I do about this?

Posted: 15 Sep 2020, 8:24pm
by mjr
Where is it? If it's west of NCN 13, I'll try to help, if you want. Else you need to ask Norwich Cycling campaign.

But the relevant county councillor is probably the next step, or opening a formal complaint that NCC isn't following its published Transport Asset Management Plan (if indeed it isn't, but I doubt that road complies).

Re: Road condition - What can I do about this?

Posted: 15 Sep 2020, 10:25pm
by willcee
Cycle on stuff like this often and appreciate the lack of traffic as already pointed out grass in centre means little traffic and perhaps farmers machines mainly.. we went from 23 section race tyres to 25's then 28's 32's and now 40's and Gravel bike geometry..all this in a space of 7 years.. progress?? questionable!! but those in charge hopefully have their minds on more pressing issues ..worse luck ...as a good friend often regales fellow cyclists with ''there's bloody holes in this road that would cope a donkeys cart''...in English.. cope= turn over.. will

Re: Road condition - What can I do about this?

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 6:26am
by mattsccm
Rde it more often and appreciate the lack of traffic. Be grateful.
Occasional trip in the dry will tell you if there are any big holes to avoid when the puddles grow.

Re: Road condition - What can I do about this?

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 7:01am
by Oldjohnw
pwa wrote:To be honest a grass strip down the middle doesn't bother me at all. Pot-holes do, but not the grass strip. If anything the grass strip indicates that you are on the quietest of quiet lanes, which is why the lane is so low down the list of priorities. Isn't it inevitable that the more traffic-dense roads get the most attention and the least used roads get the least attention? To some extent I accept minor defects like a grass strip or a bit of cow muck as part of being in the countryside, and it is only when I get dangerous pot-holes that I think something needs to be done.

Anyone else got some tolerance for the rough and ready nature of some lanes, or am I on my own in this?


I must say i'd love lanes like that but I guess it depends on your bike and purpose.

Re: Road condition - What can I do about this?

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 10:16am
by mjr
mattsccm wrote:Rde it more often and appreciate the lack of traffic. Be grateful.
Occasional trip in the dry will tell you if there are any big holes to avoid when the puddles grow.

So cycling is only for locals with excellent spatial memory? No! Cycling for all: repair and maintain the small lanes!

Re: Road condition - What can I do about this?

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 10:53am
by Cyril Haearn
No, let the banks grow, neglect it, then it is less attractive to drive
..
Actually, one may take the law into ones own hands, I just did so, trimmed back some branches that were limiting headroom

Re: Road condition - What can I do about this?

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 11:12am
by thirdcrank
If things like persistent reporting and lobbying don't work, then you are mired in the relevant law. There are provision in the Highways Act 1980 to compel highway authorities to maintain highways and to pay compo when they don't but with loopholes as big as the potholes.

I've highlighted what are probably the relevant bits here. "Normal for Norfolk" is a phrase I've heard in other contexts.

58 Special defence in action against a highway authority for damages for non-repair of highway.

(1 )In an action against a highway authority in respect of damage resulting from their failure to maintain a highway maintainable at the public expense it is a defence (without prejudice to any other defence or the application of the law relating to contributory negligence) to prove that the authority had taken such care as in all the circumstances was reasonably required to secure that the part of the highway to which the action relates was not dangerous for traffic.

(2) For the purposes of a defence under subsection (1) above, the court shall in particular have regard to the following matters:—

(a) the character of the highway, and the traffic which was reasonably to be expected to use it
;
(b) the standard of maintenance appropriate for a highway of that character and used by such traffic;

(c) the state of repair in which a reasonable person would have expected to find the highway;


(d) whether the highway authority knew, or could reasonably have been expected to know, that the condition of the part of the highway to which the action relates was likely to cause danger to users of the highway;

(e) where the highway authority could not reasonably have been expected to repair that part of the highway before the cause of action arose, what warning notices of its condition had been displayed;but for the purposes of such a defence it is not relevant to prove that the highway authority had arranged for a competent person to carry out or supervise the maintenance of the part of the highway to which the action relates unless it is also proved that the authority had given him proper instructions with regard to the maintenance of the highway and that he had carried out the instructions.

(3) This section binds the Crown.


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/19 ... aintenance

Re: Road condition - What can I do about this?

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 11:57am
by Oldjohnw
Do we really want every country lane to look like a new motorway? It's clearly single track for a handful of vehicles.

Re: Road condition - What can I do about this?

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 1:44pm
by mjr
Oldjohnw wrote:Do we really want every country lane to look like a new motorway? It's clearly single track for a handful of vehicles.

Not every lane but if that's a useful cycle route, it should be maintained for mass cycling, as stated in the latest Government policy document, "Gear Change".

If it's really for a handful of vehicles, maybe it should be downgraded to an unpaved road, same as many others in Norfolk. Having it purporting to be a tarmac road but not maintaining it as such serves no one well.

Re: Road condition - What can I do about this?

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 2:11pm
by Ron
fastpedaller wrote:. I'm of the opinion that Norfolk County Council just either don't understand (or don't want to) that putting chipping on this (and many other roads) traps seeds which then give the problem in the photo.

I suspect the Council are unclear as to the nature of the problem!
It's not clear what trapped seeds have to do with it, these don't appear to cause problems at other locations where surface dressings are applied.
If you are complaining about grass in the middle of the road, that is not usually a problem on single track roads. If you are complaining about flooding then why not take a photo of the road when flooded, with some indications of the depth of flooding?