Covid Infection boundaries

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
st599_uk
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Joined: 4 Nov 2018, 8:59pm

Re: Covid tier 3

Post by st599_uk »

Pete Owens wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:I think that purely on the question of travelling by cycle - ie ignoring doing so in a group, where to stay overnight etc - then I believe the only travel restrictions involve travel from certain parts of England into Wales. I've seen it reported that this will be enforced by automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) which suggests there will be no border checkpoints.

ANPR would only tell you where a car was registered - not where the people inside were coming from or going to or for what purpose.


The ANPR database would recognise the route a car took.
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AndyK
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Location: Mid Hampshire

Re: Covid tier 3

Post by AndyK »

thirdcrank wrote:
AndyK wrote: ... Also worth noting that in Very High areas, "If you are travelling, you must only do so with members of your household or support bubble" - where the word "must" indicates a legal compulsion. So for instance in Lancashire, hopping in the car with a friend to drive to the Forest of Bowland mountain bike trails is a definite no-no. (In other areas car sharing is discouraged, but not banned by law.)


I'd appreciate a link to the specific legislation to which you are referring.

Interesting - I was going on the basis that it uses the word "must" in the Tier Three guidance, which has been defined elsewhere in the government
Covid-19 guidance as signifying a legal requirement:

"If you are travelling, you must only do so with members of your household or support bubble" - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/local-covid ... -very-high

Unfortunately the guidance doesn't give references to the legislation and I can't see it in the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Local COVID-19 Alert Level) (Very High) (England) Regulations 2020 at the moment, but I may be looking in the wrong place - the legislation is a bit of a tangled web now.
Jdsk
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Re: Covid tier 3

Post by Jdsk »

There's a separate Statutory Instrument for each tier.

But I came to the conclusion that the use of must in the guidance does not carry the weight that it does in the Highway Code.

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 19 Oct 2020, 5:58pm, edited 1 time in total.
Oldjohnw
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Re: Covid tier 3

Post by Oldjohnw »

On Saturday there was a Celtic/Rangers match. Since the pubs in Central belt were not available bus loads of fans came just south of the border to enjoy the Berwick pubs and watch the match. Of course, all the fans were separate entities but turned up at the same place at the same time. Amazing.

The pubs and streets were apparently crowded. Let's see if there is an infection spike in a couple of weeks
John
DaveGos
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Re: Covid tier 3

Post by DaveGos »

Think they need to paint a line or something at the Welsh border, I wandered over the border accidentally on Sunday
landsurfer
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Re: Covid tier 3

Post by landsurfer »

But no one is dying of Covid 19 ... OF .... Covid 19 .... according to the ONS yesterday ...
Nobody died OF C-19 last week, or the week before .....

Hide sheeple ... it keeps the roads clear for me to cycle on ...Wherever and whenever i want ... Hereford and Carnforth next week ....

:D
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thirdcrank
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Re: Covid tier 3

Post by thirdcrank »

Jdsk wrote:There's a separate Statutory Instrument for each tier.

But I came to the conclusion that the use of must in the guidance does not carry the weight that it does in the Highway Code.

Jonathan


I'm an avid looker up of regulations and an inveterate complier, but my impression is that all along advice and legislation have been jumbled up.

Two unfortunate effects of this seem to be that ordinary people get fixed penalties which are rarely tested for legality while our betters swerve and trim through loopholes.
Jdsk
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Re: Covid tier 3

Post by Jdsk »

landsurfer wrote:But no one is dying of Covid 19 ... OF .... Covid 19 .... according to the ONS yesterday ...
Nobody died OF C-19 last week, or the week before .....

Which ONS report is that from, please?

"Of the deaths registered in Week 41, 438 mentioned "novel coronavirus (COVID-19)", accounting for 4.4% of all deaths in England and Wales; this is an increase of 117 deaths compared with Week 40 (when there were 321 deaths involving COVID-19, accounting for 3.2% of all deaths)."
"Overall, there were 401 deaths involving COVID-19 in England in Week 41; the number of deaths involving COVID-19 increased in seven of the nine English regions, with the North West having the largest number (153 deaths)."
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending9october2020

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Covid tier 3

Post by Jdsk »

thirdcrank wrote:
Jdsk wrote:There's a separate Statutory Instrument for each tier.
But I came to the conclusion that the use of must in the guidance does not carry the weight that it does in the Highway Code.

I'm an avid looker up of regulations and an inveterate complier, but my impression is that all along advice and legislation have been jumbled up.

Yes, one part of the disastrous communications.

Jonathan
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mjr
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Re: Covid tier 3

Post by mjr »

landsurfer wrote:But no one is dying of Covid 19 ...

It's not the covid that kills you directly, but the consequent inability to breathe... dying of, from, with and involving something are all slightly different. Here's an explainer (from earlier in the year): https://fullfact.org/online/deaths-only ... ronavirus/
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Covid tier 3

Post by The utility cyclist »

Jdsk wrote:
landsurfer wrote:But no one is dying of Covid 19 ... OF .... Covid 19 .... according to the ONS yesterday ...
Nobody died OF C-19 last week, or the week before .....

Which ONS report is that from, please?

"Of the deaths registered in Week 41, 438 mentioned "novel coronavirus (COVID-19)", accounting for 4.4% of all deaths in England and Wales; this is an increase of 117 deaths compared with Week 40 (when there were 321 deaths involving COVID-19, accounting for 3.2% of all deaths)."
"Overall, there were 401 deaths involving COVID-19 in England in Week 41; the number of deaths involving COVID-19 increased in seven of the nine English regions, with the North West having the largest number (153 deaths)."
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending9october2020

Jonathan

ONS are no longer independent, haven't been for a long time, shils for the criminals in Westminster and continually moving the goalposts as to how a death is attributed. The rules as to how a death is attributed have been changed like never before in history and never done for other respiratory diseases.
A death by any cause within 28 days of a positive test is now counted as a 'covid' death, this is ludicrous and indeed unlawful, it completely ignores how a death should be coded by underlying cause, it also ignores the huge false positives of those deceased that were tested. Using 45x cycles is insane, it increases the chances of false positives massively, also deceased needn't even need to have a test to be pronounced a 'covid' death.

There's no need for the person signing off the death certificate to have even seen the deceased before or after death, it can be via video, we already know that just a single symptom (that could mean something else completely different) or a guess is enough for covid to be put down on a death certificate, this is explained in the governments own notes regarding such. "if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID19 infection, but the test result has not been received, it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death."
That in itself is just absolute BS. As is pronouncing a covid death when the deceased had pneumonia, again this was changed by the government before the summer.
Government have now abolished the form regards cremation such that relatives cannot contest cause of death, why would government do that, we know thousands of people have complained just on social media alone regards covid being falsely put as cause of death on a DC, none of that has ben addressed.
That's before we even get to the absolute fact that there is no isolated virus, there is no SARS-COV-2, the image is from the CDC documents in July. No-one has isolated it, so basically it IS a simplistic test for a number of viruses containing the same RNA strands.

The actual deaths are so massively out, multiple times over and deliberately manipulated the rules regarding how you count deaths it's unlawful and is simply done to prop up the narrative.
CDC proof of no isolation.JPG
mjal
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Joined: 4 Jul 2011, 2:22pm

Re: Covid tier 3

Post by mjal »

TUC strikes again.

"That's before we even get to the absolute fact that there is no isolated virus, there is no SARS-COV-2, the image is from the CDC documents in July. No-one has isolated it"

Am I interpreting correctly in that you seem to be saying that the virus causing Covid-19 has not been isolated and does not exist?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7036342/

The title of this paper is "Virus Isolation from the First Patient with SARS-CoV-2 in Korea" and the date is 24 February 2020.

The CDC document you have posted is a reference to the lack of virus isolates for test purposes.

As for your strange ideas on death certification, please declare your experience of this procedure. I was a registered medical practitioner for 40 years and certified a significant number of deaths. I do not share your "concerns" re certification of Covid-19 deaths.
mjal
Posts: 29
Joined: 4 Jul 2011, 2:22pm

Re: Covid tier 3

Post by mjal »

. . <UC> . . . . . assuming that I have read his post correctly ; he has not, so far, posted anything to contradict my interpretation.
Philip900
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Joined: 16 Oct 2020, 11:38am

Re: Covid tier 3

Post by Philip900 »

This from the cycling uk info page

Tier 3 – very high

On top of the tier 1 and 2 restrictions, different restrictions apply in many of the tier 3 areas, so you should check the specific restrictions within your area here.
As a minimum however, people within tier 3 areas should try to avoid travelling outside that area, and those outside tier 3 areas should avoid travelling into them, other than for things like work, education, to meet caring responsibilities or if you are travelling through as part of a longer journey. This does not include recreation or leisure, which means that you can’t cycle into or out of a tier 3 area purely for leisure purposes or exercise, but you can if your journey is for work or other reasons permitted by the specific tier 3 rules for that particular area.

...so its a no then.
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Covid tier 3

Post by Jdsk »

mjal wrote:TUC strikes again.

"That's before we even get to the absolute fact that there is no isolated virus, there is no SARS-COV-2, the image is from the CDC documents in July. No-one has isolated it"

Am I interpreting correctly in that you seem to be saying that the virus causing Covid-19 has not been isolated and does not exist?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7036342/

The title of this paper is "Virus Isolation from the First Patient with SARS-CoV-2 in Korea" and the date is 24 February 2020.

The CDC document you have posted is a reference to the lack of virus isolates for test purposes.

As for your strange ideas on death certification, please declare your experience of this procedure. I was a registered medical practitioner for 40 years and certified a significant number of deaths. I do not share your "concerns" re certification of Covid-19 deaths.

Thanks, mjal.

It's very hard to know how to respond to conspiracy theories and alt-truth in public forums. Good question. Well said.

Jonathan
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