Dutch government pilots technology to cut e-bike road deaths

DaveBeck
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Re: Dutch government pilots technology to cut e-bike road deaths

Postby DaveBeck » 9 Nov 2020, 7:59am

Cyril Haearn wrote:I have noticed some €bikes going quite slowly, I suspect the heavy batteries are exhausted, minusplus?


Unlikely. Perhaps they are just using them as intended, to help them keep riding on the parts of their journey where they need a little assistance.

Not everyone feels the need to ride at their maximum possible speed!

oldun
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Re: Dutch government pilots technology to cut e-bike road deaths

Postby oldun » 9 Nov 2020, 9:56am

DaveBeck wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:I have noticed some €bikes going quite slowly, I suspect the heavy batteries are exhausted, minusplus?


Unlikely. Perhaps they are just using them as intended, to help them keep riding on the parts of their journey where they need a little assistance.

Not everyone feels the need to ride at their maximum possible speed!



+1

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Dutch government pilots technology to cut e-bike road deaths

Postby Bmblbzzz » 9 Nov 2020, 10:24am

mumbojumbo wrote:Holland is flat and therefore an e-bike should be available after a disability test My f-i-law ius 91 and cycles with ease,albeit a little below 12mph.The roads will be full of ebikes posing another threat for pedestrian.I approve of speed-restrictions but adopt technology for cars please.

Do you mean only allowed to those who pass (or should that be fail?) a "disability test" or, perhaps, made available free or subsidised to them?
What would this test consist of?
Who would administer it?
How would the law apply to foreign visitors?

Psamathe
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Re: Dutch government pilots technology to cut e-bike road deaths

Postby Psamathe » 9 Nov 2020, 10:33am

Bmblbzzz wrote:
mumbojumbo wrote:Holland is flat and therefore an e-bike should be available after a disability test My f-i-law ius 91 and cycles with ease,albeit a little below 12mph.The roads will be full of ebikes posing another threat for pedestrian.I approve of speed-restrictions but adopt technology for cars please.

Do you mean only allowed to those who pass (or should that be fail?) a "disability test" or, perhaps, made available free or subsidised to them?
What would this test consist of?
Who would administer it?

How would the law apply to foreign visitors?

(My bold/colour to illustrate the aspect I'm responding to)
My comment is probably a bit of-topic, but one aspect to a driver/rider having to pass a test is that their license (issued on passing test) can be revoked if they are caught riding/driving unsafely. I see a test as more than proving knowledge/behaviour at a brief moment in time.

Ian

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Dutch government pilots technology to cut e-bike road deaths

Postby Bmblbzzz » 9 Nov 2020, 1:23pm

Psamathe wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:
mumbojumbo wrote:Holland is flat and therefore an e-bike should be available after a disability test My f-i-law ius 91 and cycles with ease,albeit a little below 12mph.The roads will be full of ebikes posing another threat for pedestrian.I approve of speed-restrictions but adopt technology for cars please.

Do you mean only allowed to those who pass (or should that be fail?) a "disability test" or, perhaps, made available free or subsidised to them?
What would this test consist of?
Who would administer it?

How would the law apply to foreign visitors?

(My bold/colour to illustrate the aspect I'm responding to)
My comment is probably a bit of-topic, but one aspect to a driver/rider having to pass a test is that their license (issued on passing test) can be revoked if they are caught riding/driving unsafely. I see a test as more than proving knowledge/behaviour at a brief moment in time.

Ian

Okay. You're referring to, I take it, some sort of "e-biking driving licence" whereas I think Mumbojumbo was meaning a test of disability - to prove that one is disabled and entitled to the e-assistance.

Psamathe
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Re: Dutch government pilots technology to cut e-bike road deaths

Postby Psamathe » 9 Nov 2020, 1:30pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:Do you mean only allowed to those who pass (or should that be fail?) a "disability test" or, perhaps, made available free or subsidised to them?
What would this test consist of?
Who would administer it?

How would the law apply to foreign visitors?

(My bold/colour to illustrate the aspect I'm responding to)
My comment is probably a bit of-topic, but one aspect to a driver/rider having to pass a test is that their license (issued on passing test) can be revoked if they are caught riding/driving unsafely. I see a test as more than proving knowledge/behaviour at a brief moment in time.

Ian

Okay. You're referring to, I take it, some sort of "e-biking driving licence" whereas I think Mumbojumbo was meaning a test of disability - to prove that one is disabled and entitled to the e-assistance.

My mistake.
On "disability tests" - the cynic in me would suspect any Government operated scheme would be a disaster ("if you can walk to your e-bike then you can't be disabled ...").

Ian

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Re: Dutch government pilots technology to cut e-bike road deaths

Postby Bmblbzzz » 9 Nov 2020, 4:53pm

Comparison with current disability allowances suggests you're not being at all cynical. But that's the UK, I've no idea how they approach this in NL.

9494arnold
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Re: Dutch government pilots technology to cut e-bike road deaths

Postby 9494arnold » 10 Nov 2020, 11:49am

I fear a couple of E bike issues.

1/ The folk who haven't been on a bike for 50 plus years, jumping on and mixing it with the Traffic, and other Non Elec Bikes with No Training whatsoever.

2/ The development. I am old enough to remember Mopeds, which you could legally ride at 16 .
Problem was that the old Moped Definition actually allowed machines to be developed that could do 100 mph and be ridden by complete novices.

I am intrigued (and I don't know the legislation that well) that E Scooters are apparently nominally 'Illegal' BUT are being trialled .
What's that all about ?

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Dutch government pilots technology to cut e-bike road deaths

Postby Bmblbzzz » 10 Nov 2020, 1:18pm

9494arnold wrote:I fear a couple of E bike issues.

1/ The folk who haven't been on a bike for 50 plus years, jumping on and mixing it with the Traffic, and other Non Elec Bikes with No Training whatsoever.

2/ The development. I am old enough to remember Mopeds, which you could legally ride at 16 .
Problem was that the old Moped Definition actually allowed machines to be developed that could do 100 mph and be ridden by complete novices.


I am intrigued (and I don't know the legislation that well) that E Scooters are apparently nominally 'Illegal' BUT are being trialled .
What's that all about ?

:lol: :roll:
They were limited to 30mph and even if/when you removed the baffles, you'd only get a few more mph. Perhaps you meant 100mpg, which they would do?

Nigel
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Re: Dutch government pilots technology to cut e-bike road deaths

Postby Nigel » 10 Nov 2020, 4:38pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:
9494arnold wrote:I fear a couple of E bike issues.

................
2/ The development. I am old enough to remember Mopeds, which you could legally ride at 16 .
Problem was that the old Moped Definition actually allowed machines to be developed that could do 100 mph and be ridden by complete novices.


:lol: :roll:
They were limited to 30mph and even if/when you removed the baffles, you'd only get a few more mph. Perhaps you meant 100mpg, which they would do?


Mopeds, without any tweaking, were able to go well above 30mph, though 100mph might be pushing even the best tuning upgrades.

In 1970 the law limited 16 year olds to a 50cc "moped". But, the law overlooked what makers might develop if there is a niche market. So a year or two later and the Yamaha FS1-E appears: capable of 45-50mph or more if tweaked. Some other makers could be quicker still.

In 1977 the rules changed again: the moped maximum power and speed limit came in, and the moped rules started to look like those we have today.


- Nigel

Jdsk
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Re: Dutch government pilots technology to cut e-bike road deaths

Postby Jdsk » 10 Nov 2020, 4:42pm

oldun wrote:
DaveBeck wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:I have noticed some €bikes going quite slowly, I suspect the heavy batteries are exhausted, minusplus?

Unlikely. Perhaps they are just using them as intended, to help them keep riding on the parts of their journey where they need a little assistance.
Not everyone feels the need to ride at their maximum possible speed!

+1

I most often notice that they're electrically assisted when they seem to be going faster than the visible effort suggests. And when I go and have a look to understand the different types and layouts.

As above: common uses are keeping up with others, making those hills bearable or possible, and increasing range with the associated pleasures.

Half-full, half-empty...

Jonathan

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Dutch government pilots technology to cut e-bike road deaths

Postby The utility cyclist » 10 Nov 2020, 7:13pm

As I said some while back, electric assist cycles should have their maximum speed restricted to 12mph, there's absolutely no need for it to be any higher, none, not for commuting, not for utility, not for the less mobile not for the leisure cyclist.
And as I forewarned, e-cycles will bring about more deaths/harm, this was already proven in the Dutch stats several years ago but ignored by e-bike pushers/cycle orgs.
Now instead of addressing matters at the root cause they are spending stupid amounts of money on a retro system that still ignores the doesn't rectify the root problem excepting in some areas.
And as others have said, adoption of lowered speed limits in these areas should then be same, circa 10mph for motor vehicles would be an idea to balance things and to make it so much safer for everyone. In fact lowering motoring speed limits so much coerces people to ditch the car for some journeys.

Jdsk
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Re: Dutch government pilots technology to cut e-bike road deaths

Postby Jdsk » 10 Nov 2020, 7:16pm

The utility cyclist wrote:And as I forewarned, e-cycles will bring about more deaths/harm, this was already proven in the Dutch stats several years ago but ignored by e-bike pushers/cycle orgs.

We have no idea about the overall benefits and harms. They should be studied.

I'm encouraged by the reports showing that use of eBikes is associated with taking more exercise and the one (any more out there?) showing improved mental health.

Jonathan

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Re: Dutch government pilots technology to cut e-bike road deaths

Postby Cyril Haearn » 10 Nov 2020, 7:34pm

Right again utility, 20 kmh max for €bikes
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Bmblbzzz
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Re: Dutch government pilots technology to cut e-bike road deaths

Postby Bmblbzzz » 10 Nov 2020, 8:34pm

"10 mph for motor vehicles"
Yes, great. But until and unless that happens, riding at 12mph in heavy traffic is fundamentally scarier than being able to do 15mph. This is easy to try for yourself on any bike with some way of determining speed.