Levelling up?

grufty
Posts: 135
Joined: 26 Sep 2017, 2:24pm

Levelling up?

Post by grufty »

We live in a small town of approximately 29000 people. There have been a couple of initiatives in the last year or two which have resulted in the introduction of the classic sub-standard British cycling facility. In my experience these require people on bikes to have a substantially higher level of awareness and competence than is required of motorists. This was highlighted in a blog from a local cyclist who was knocked off her bike on one of these new routes.

This led me to consider whether slavishly copying the infrastructure of major urban areas is appropriate in smaller towns. In towns such as ours there is little space for separate facilities, and any discussion usually ends up in a "them and us" spat between vocal minorities. With the trends for levelling up and the increasing use of EVs, perhaps there is a third way which may involve increasing the expectations of vulnerable users of public space and decreasing the expectations of other users of said space. For example our town has been toying with the idea of a blanket 20mph limit. This combined with enforcement and perhaps the introduction of rumble strips around pedestrian areas with a smooth surface for bikes in primary position instead of in the gutter, would give all users the message to share. Other benefits would include the improved maintenance (gritting, sweeping) which is universally lacking on dedicated cycle/shared routes. This could be combined with modal filtering, exclusion zones around schools (perhaps diurnal) hopefully leading to a more pleasant and less polluted environment  for all citizens.
Tangled Metal
Posts: 9505
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Levelling up?

Post by Tangled Metal »

Our town put in a lot of 20mph zones. People stick to it on the roads where it's not safe to drive even at 20mph or where the only speed camera is. Everywhere else it's pointless signage nobody pays attention to.

Before you make any comment about morons or motorists that's the case with cyclists too. It's on a popular lejog route and many roadies too go through. It's common to see cyclists bunching up behind me sticking to 20mph! It's simply that 20mph zones don't seem to matter without enforcement or other infrastructure that makes it hard to exceed the limit.

There needs more imaginative solutions.
grufty
Posts: 135
Joined: 26 Sep 2017, 2:24pm

Re: Levelling up?

Post by grufty »

The point I was trying to make is that perhaps we need to move away from implied "ownership" of public space and the need to share. This obviously will require tolerance and cooperation, but the benefits for all, particularly those with little say (children, the frail and elderly) are surely worth it?
Jdsk
Posts: 24636
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Levelling up?

Post by Jdsk »

I'm not sure what you're exploring about use of public space... more, please.

Thanks

Jonathan
grufty
Posts: 135
Joined: 26 Sep 2017, 2:24pm

Re: Levelling up?

Post by grufty »

My point is that many smaller towns in this country don't have a lot of space available  for dedicated cycle routes, so we end up with a fudged (often shared) facility running alongside a road, with many pinch points and dangerous interfaces. I'm suggesting that normalizing roads being used for active travel as well as motorised travel might be a model worth consideration. Obviously this will only work with lower speeds and mutual cooperation from all users, and is not a model suitable for all roads at the moment. I recall reading an article this summer about a place where there were no road signs or markings, no different surfaces for different users and people took a lot more care. Many so called pedestrian areas have buses and other vehicles mixing and people do seem to take more care. My town sits in a rectangle 5km x 3km, so a model that may suit a large urban area, is not necessarily one that needs to be copied everywhere.
Jdsk
Posts: 24636
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Levelling up?

Post by Jdsk »

Thanks.

grufty wrote:I recall reading an article this summer about a place where there were no road signs or markings, no different surfaces for different users and people took a lot more care.

"Shared space"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space

Jonathan
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Levelling up?

Post by reohn2 »

grufty wrote:The point I was trying to make is that perhaps we need to move away from implied "ownership" of public space and the need to share. This obviously will require tolerance and cooperation, but the benefits for all, particularly those with little say (children, the frail and elderly) are surely worth it?

Whilst I agree with you 100%,the problem is that cyclists are treated on UK roads as a pariah to be ridiculed and bullied mercilessly by a growing minority and grudgingly accepted by a majority.
The UK(from my observations)are a country in a rush to get anywhere and everywhere fast,and anyone not joining in the 'rush of speed' is regarded as a nuisance and deserves all they get as a result.
Add to that local and national governments other than a few very forward thinking cities and larger towns,and the firmly held belief that it's your human right to take a 1.5+tonne box with you everywhere you go,you end up with the situation of increasing hostility toward cycling.
The UK overall is quite simply not a cycle friendly country,IME that situation,as cycling numbers increase,is becoming worse.
I've come to the conclusion that if there's not something radically done in favour of cycling and active travel generally things will only worsen further.
Levelling up will never(IMO)be in the UK agenda.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
atlas_shrugged
Posts: 534
Joined: 8 Nov 2016, 7:50pm

Re: Levelling up?

Post by atlas_shrugged »

From what I have seen when cycling in NL the 'cycle' roads (where cars are guests) work well. I am not sure 20 mph speed limits work in the UK because if you drive an audi, bmw, or range rover then naturally these rules do not apply.

I have to admit to being a segregationists. In Bedford you can see a good example of heaven and hell. If you look on the crashmap website you can see the west (and north and south) of Bedford being a traffic snarled up nighmare resulting in many serious and fatal accidents with cycles. However from the east there is a wedge shape in to the city centre which has far fewer cycle accidents. IMHO the reason for this is the wonderful paths that follow the river and see heavy usage by cyclists and pedestrians. East Bedford is really nice to cycle in.
grufty
Posts: 135
Joined: 26 Sep 2017, 2:24pm

Re: Levelling up?

Post by grufty »

I understand your view reohn2, and I don't think I've ever met a cyclist who hasn't faced some verbal or physical abuse. Having said that I do believe that it is possible for the system to evolve into something more humane. The uptake of electric bikes by ' non-cyclists ' and the increasing use of e-scooters which surely must become street legal soon, will I hope lead to more equitable use of our public roads and spaces.
grufty
Posts: 135
Joined: 26 Sep 2017, 2:24pm

Re: Levelling up?

Post by grufty »

People have mentioned about certain drivers ignoring speed limits. I know it's not a new idea but mandatory fitting (and retrofitting) of speeding "swear boxes" on vehicles might make people think twice before hitting the exhilarator?
mumbojumbo
Posts: 1525
Joined: 1 Aug 2018, 8:18pm

Re: Levelling up?

Post by mumbojumbo »

I thought levelling up was about closing gap in regions,and cannot see how term relates to cycle lanes.
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Levelling up?

Post by reohn2 »

grufty wrote:I understand your view reohn2, and I don't think I've ever met a cyclist who hasn't faced some verbal or physical abuse. Having said that I do believe that it is possible for the system to evolve into something more humane. The uptake of electric bikes by ' non-cyclists ' and the increasing use of e-scooters which surely must become street legal soon, will I hope lead to more equitable use of our public roads and spaces.

Unfortunately seeing what I do everyday on UK roads I don't share your optimism.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
drossall
Posts: 6115
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 10:01pm
Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: Levelling up?

Post by drossall »

Tangled Metal wrote:Before you make any comment about morons or motorists that's the case with cyclists too. It's on a popular lejog route and many roadies too go through. It's common to see cyclists bunching up behind me sticking to 20mph!

Bicycles are not subject to speed limits - although that doesn't necessarily mean that it's always safe for cyclists to exceed the limits.
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Levelling up?

Post by mjr »

grufty wrote:My point is that many smaller towns in this country don't have a lot of space available  for dedicated cycle routes,

Yes, we do. Most government just won't use it for cycle routes, preferring another lane of traffic jam or another rat run to doing anything for "bloody cyclists" so...
so we end up with a fudged (often shared) facility running alongside a road, with many pinch points and dangerous interfaces. I'm suggesting that normalizing roads being used for active travel as well as motorised travel might be a model worth consideration.

It is sometimes a good model but when motorists are more common or faster, most people don't want to cycle among them unprotected.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Bmblbzzz
Posts: 6259
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Levelling up?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Roads being used for "active travel", private motor vehicles and public transport, all in one space, is the norm in UK and most of the world. So I'm at a loss to see how it can be "normalized" when it's already the norm.
Post Reply