Samye Ling / Eskdalmuir

toontra
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Re: Samye Ling / Eskdalmuir

Post by toontra »

Zulu Eleven wrote:At the same time, those who say they've been in the hills and didn't see any wildlife. I would politely suggest they don't know what they're looking at.


And I would politely reply that I have otherwise perfect sight and hearing. I've cycled all through the glens bordering Balmoral (at slow speed, stopping regularly), and on those days we saw a single scampering hare. We remarked at the time it was the only moving thing we'd seen that day (there were 4 of us so it wasn't just my observations). Nothing flying - no birds, butterflies, insects (large enough to see anyway) - nothing. This was in mid-summer. Does that sound natural?

This is in combination with the intensified farming that has taken over. Growing up in Angus, all the small farms that I remember have been bought out by larger ones. Hedges have been ripped out so fields are now several times their previous size, often as far as the eye can see. No doubt there has been historic use of damaging chemicals - maybe it continues.

Not surprising that the combined result of of these two factors is we are facing ecological disaster due to mismanagement on a grand scale. There is simply no sanctuary for indigenous flora and fauna.

And now we are being asked to tolerate high-velocity gun ranges in one of the most tranquil areas. I repeat - it's an obscenity.

BTW, are you claiming that all the deforestation has occurred naturally? https://treesforlife.org.uk/into-the-forest/habitats-and-ecology/human-impacts/deforestation/
Pebble
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Re: Samye Ling / Eskdalmuir

Post by Pebble »

Trees will grow just fine on most of all mainland Scotland, just leave the ground alone and in a 100 years or less most of the highlands would just look like the Glen Afric picture I posted above.

No one is suggesting Scotland was deforrested for grouse shooting and deer hunting. But most certainly the grouse shooting is stopping vast areas of land from reverting to something far more beautiful and environmentally beneficial to all.

Zulu Eleven wrote:At the same time, those who say they've been in the hills and didn't see any wildlife. I would politely suggest they don't know what they're looking at.

Yeah, RSPB, what do they know
https://www.rspb.org.uk/our-work/our-po ... g-impacts/
ChrisButch
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Re: Samye Ling / Eskdalmuir

Post by ChrisButch »

It's a mistake to lump driven grouse shooting and deerstalking together as if the same considerations apply. They're very different both in the shooting culture and their environmental impact. Grouse, themselves, have absolutely no adverse environmental effects. If driven shooting were to stop, the natural ecosystem of the moors would reestablish very quickly. In the case of deer, however, it's the deer themselves which are the immediate cause of regeneration failure in Caledonian pine forest. Human management keeps the numbers artificially high: but in the absence of natural predators, it's unlikely that, left alone, numbers would decrease sufficiently to allow regeneration on a large scale. There would still need to be some form of population control: and unfortunately there's at present no humane alternative to stalking with high-velocity rifles, albeit on a much reduced scale.
cycle tramp
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Re: Samye Ling / Eskdalmuir

Post by cycle tramp »

ChrisButch wrote:The management of deer numbers is a complex subject, on which there has recently been a Scottish Government review.


Absolutely... I'd also go one further - what society expects from the countryside makes it so. Society expects the countryside to be economically viable, but also a reserve for nature, as well as a playground for sports and events and also a place for spiritual renewal. Despite the fact that we are one of the most densely populated places on Earth, despite the fact it seems to have less legal protection than at any other time and despite the fact that urban growth means that countryside the size of Bristol disappears ever year.
Interestingly there seems to be not the same demand from urban developments - perhaps if we expect our urban developments to also support wildlife and, be places of spiritual relaxation, we may see a better level of national mental health, and less pressure on the countryside.
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Auchmill
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Re: Samye Ling / Eskdalmuir

Post by Auchmill »

I'm a bit late to this discussion. But some of the assertions about habitat, trees, "sporting" activities and so on are plain wrong. There's plenty of good stuff on the internet about how trees colonised Scotland after the Ice retreated and the causes of their decline - mostly, but not completely, by human activity of various kinds, along with some climate change, which, just as we are seeing in the Amazon, can partially be attributed to humans clearing the trees, creating a kind of feedback loop.

The landscape we see now is definitely man-made. The monoculture of heather is due to management of land for "sporting" purposes. The red deer, which are naturally forest animals (and have decreased in size since being forced onto open hill ground), and sheep, muirburn, the removal of cattle, have all played a huge part in ensuring the forest doesn't regenerate. And so on. It's been an environmental and human disaster for Scotland.

But there are 2 further important points. First, Scotland has one of the most lax land-ownership regimes in Europe. Any billionaire can come in, buy up tens of thousands of acres and do more or less what he or she pleases - and the people, you know the ones who are sovereign, have absolutely no say. So a Danish guy can become Scotland's biggest landowner and live out his environmental fantasy and we, the people, can just lump it. Maybe we like what he's doing, or maybe we don't or maybe we like some of it but we think it can be done better.

So we need more land reform and more imaginitive solutions than turning the "wet desert" into a "rewilded" haven for extinct species. And every citizen must be able to have their voice in the discussion.

Secondly, there are people with ideas - Lesley Riddoch for example and Common Weal who have released several documents about future Scotland. Well worth a read, even if you're not an Independentista. Commonweal.scot
VinceLedge
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Re: Samye Ling / Eskdalmuir

Post by VinceLedge »

I live and cycle in the Scottish Borders and there is a real name amount of wildlife around, when we cycle we see plenty of bird life, birds of prey (lots of skylark at the moment), hares and Roe deer and sometimes a red squirrel. Although mainly farmed there is a reasonable mix of habitat, with some native Woodlands, pasture, hedges, moorland and forestry planting.
This may be because fields have not been consolidated into the massive ones like in East Anglia and there is terrain that is not suitable for much apart from grazing.
There is a fair amount of pheasant shooting and some deer control.
Obviously if it was replanted with native forest (like Carrifran) then that would increase biodiversity, but it is not quite as bad as some areas.
toontra
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Re: Samye Ling / Eskdalmuir

Post by toontra »

Just noticed that both applications were withdrawn by the applicants in late April. Anyone local know what happened?
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Paulatic
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Re: Samye Ling / Eskdalmuir

Post by Paulatic »

Read last week they are trying again and submitting new plans but on an initial look couldn’t find any detail.
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toontra
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Re: Samye Ling / Eskdalmuir

Post by toontra »

Thanks! I hope that the comments the council received for the first application are transferred to the revised one(s). Developers are notorious for withdrawing and then submitting slightly revised applications in the hope that objectors won't notice (or be bothered to write in again).
Jdsk
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Re: Samye Ling / Eskdalmuir

Post by Jdsk »

"Petition to Create Exclusion Zones"
https://www.samyeling.org/news/petition-to/

Jonathan
toontra
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Re: Samye Ling / Eskdalmuir

Post by toontra »

Jdsk wrote: 11 Jun 2021, 6:57pm "Petition to Create Exclusion Zones"
https://www.samyeling.org/news/petition-to/

Jonathan
Thanks - signed.
GayUnicorn
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Re: Samye Ling / Eskdalmuir

Post by GayUnicorn »

Sounds very relaxing without the gun fire
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cyclemad
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Re: Samye Ling / Eskdalmuir

Post by cyclemad »

nothing like the smell of cordite on a summers morning .......
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