Scottish Borders 20mph limit study

[Paulatic]

Spain also has presumed liability which drivers here fiercely oppose.

[Ron]

20mph restrictions would be much more likely to be followed if they are in areas where there is reasonable walking and cycling levels likely, or where there is a particular risk area.

I can't agree that present walking and cycling levels should dictate future speed limit restrictions.
The numbers of people walking and cycling on many of our roads is presently constrained by the perceived and actual danger of fast motor traffic, even walking on narrow pavements beside traffic restricted to 40mph is not an enjoyable experience.

[thirdcrank]

.... Spain also has presumed liability which drivers here fiercely oppose. ...

Except when mentioning it as a "good thing" nobody on here ever seems to take much interest in what might be achieved here.

Here's something I've referred to a few times.

viewtopic.php?p=1574826#p1574826

[Pebble]

20mph restrictions would be much more likely to be followed if they are in areas where there is reasonable walking and cycling levels likely, or where there is a particular risk area.

I can't agree that present walking and cycling levels should dictate future speed limit restrictions.
The numbers of people walking and cycling on many of our roads is presently constrained by the perceived and actual danger of fast motor traffic, even walking on narrow pavements beside traffic restricted to 40mph is not an enjoyable experience.

very much agree, we need to make the roads feel safer to attract more people to give cycling and walking a go. At present they feel too dangerous.

We also need enforcement, 99 drivers passing slowly and carefully is ruined by one plank who doesn't give a dam. It is the 1:100 drivers that spoil it for everyone.

[squeaker]

Spain also has presumed liability which drivers here fiercely oppose.

I drive; I cycle; I walk: I'd support presumed liability in the UK

[Paulatic]

Spain also has presumed liability which drivers here fiercely oppose.

I drive; I cycle; I walk: I'd support presumed liability in the UK

I would imagine if every driver also walked or cycled then we would have presumed liability. We all know where the resistance is.

[Paulatic]

Borders Council recently voted 26 - 5 to keep the limit. They have cut speeds.

[squeaker]

Borders Council recently voted 26 - 5 to keep the limit. They have cut speeds.
112B5989-A43D-489C-BB73-22961F69CACE.png

Excellent! A link to the report that graphic came from would be helpful, please.

[Pebble]

sadly, as a cyclist here in the borders I don't think it has made a hapeth of difference to cycling in local towns, yes many drivers are going a little slower, but the ones who have never taken any notice of laws are still driving in their same horrible uncaring manner.

A FOI request suggests the police have never enforced it, they were opposed to it from the very start, so no surprises there.

[Bmblbzzz]

If I'm reading that graph correctly, the reductions in speed have been greater than predicted.

[Paulatic]

Borders Council recently voted 26 - 5 to keep the limit. They have cut speeds.
112B5989-A43D-489C-BB73-22961F69CACE.png

Excellent! A link to the report that graphic came from would be helpful, please.

The graph I grabbed from Twitter. The council meeting is https://scottishborders.moderngov.co.uk ... 202021.pdf with a link to some very detailed pages for each location.
Be interesting if @Pebble took a look at some of his regular locations and compare his perception with the reality.

[Jdsk]

The council meeting is https://scottishborders.moderngov.co.uk ... 202021.pdf with a link to some very detailed pages for each location.

Thanks.

That's not bad by the standards of evidence used in transport.

1 There is an independent evaluation, but it's not stated where it can be found.

2 The only comparator is historical. That design could have been much stronger. I think that they have avoided reversion to the mean.

3 The map and linked results don't work in Safari on macOS. They do in Chrome on macOS but I haven't gone into them in detail.

4 There is an option appraisal but it could have been presented better.

5 It doesn't describe or propose future evaluation.

Jonathan

[squeaker]

The graph I grabbed from Twitter. The council meeting is https://scottishborders.moderngov.co.uk ... 202021.pdf with a link to some very detailed pages for each location.

Cheers Paulatic. Looks like 20sPlenty did the analysis on the available data.

[Nigel]

Be interesting if @Pebble took a look at some of his regular locations and compare his perception with the reality.

As another Borders resident, I think the changes have helped. Possibly helping pedestrians in towns more than cycles - my regular walk to town has a few roads to cross, and its easier to cross with lower speeds. And one of my cycle routes out of town is now much better, being speed limited until the minor roads branch away, so there's no longer a unrestricted A-road part to negotiate.

Cycling in towns remains a "dodge the pothole and awful road surface" problem, the roads in many Borders towns seem to be a competition to make the roughest surface possible. Speed limits are largely irrelevant to this issue.

The lack of road policing is a bigger problem, so there are a few very high-speed drivers who take the view that "no coppers, no cameras" mean there are no speed limits.



- Nigel

[mattheus]

A visitor writes ...

I rode through a few Borders towns during a Friday rush-hour in October. It was delightful! At first I wondered if local drivers were a bit simple - they just hung behind me on very wide roads without passing. After about 30minutes of this I noticed the 20 signs !!

(I think Galashiels and Peebles were the main examples, I was heading broadly East to Jedburgh.)

To be fair, I encountered negligible impatience/aggression between Mull of Galloway and Berwick, a most civilised region for touring.