Humber Bridge now open to cyclists & pedestrians

hjd10
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Location: Originally from Lancashire but now in Lincolnshire

Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by hjd10 »

Pete Owens wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 8:59pm
thirdcrank wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 6:29am Perhaps one thing to reflect on here is that the relevant authorities don't seem to see cUK as significant.
The problem is not that they see CUK as insignificant it is that they see cyclists as insignificant.

Had suicides been jumping from the side of the road the thought of closing the bridge to motor traffic simply wouldn't have occurred to them. After all, as someone pointed out up-thread - they could have easily retained pedestrian and cycle access while closing the footways by the simple measure of closing one of the carriageways to motors and setting up a contraflow.

What is more astonishing is that so many contributors to a cycle forum think their actions are reasonable. If we can't even convince other cyclists that cyclists are as important as motorists, or that subjecting cyclists to a 60 mile detour is excessive, what hope do we have of convincing the authorities to take us seriously.
The authorities I'd imagine don't care very much about the cyclist issues right now, the bridge staff are probably threaders with the number of recent suicides. Many years ago I used to work at Leconfield on the SAR and can remember very well some of the shouts for people who jumped off the bridge. :-(
Pete Owens
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by Pete Owens »

As I said - utterly astounding that even contributors to a cycle campaign forum don't take cycling remotely seriously and have sympathy with the authorities treating us as second class citizens. Even if you accept that closing the footways is reasonable there is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for prohibiting cyclists and pedestrians from crossing the bridge when they could easily repurpose one of the carriageways - or even just allow us to ride on the carriageway.

I remember we had a similar debate here when they attempted to ban us from the A63, with many contributors not seeing a problem with banning cyclists from a road that they didn't personally use.
hjd10
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Joined: 25 Feb 2010, 9:43pm
Location: Originally from Lancashire but now in Lincolnshire

Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by hjd10 »

Pete Owens wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 11:22pm As I said - utterly astounding that even contributors to a cycle campaign forum don't take cycling remotely seriously and have sympathy with the authorities treating us as second class citizens. Even if you accept that closing the footways is reasonable there is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for prohibiting cyclists and pedestrians from crossing the bridge when they could easily repurpose one of the carriageways - or even just allow us to ride on the carriageway.

I remember we had a similar debate here when they attempted to ban us from the A63, with many contributors not seeing a problem with banning cyclists from a road that they didn't personally use.
Hopefully, they will come up with a resolution that works for all. Sometimes it helps to look at the issue from the bridge authorities' point of view 1st and try to work with them to find a resolution. Otherwise, the organisation 'cycle campaigners' looks like a sad bunch of moaners who only care about themselves.
simonhill
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by simonhill »

I wrote on page 2 that I was disgusted with the decision to close and I still am.

May I throw in another thought. Might the HBB actually/secretly be pleased they have an excuse to exclude pedestrians and cyclists. We know all too well that in this country we are often seen as an inconvenience.
markjohnobrien
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by markjohnobrien »

I must admit that if I lived in this area, used the bridge regularly (whether for commuting to work recreational cycling - any form of cycling really), I’d be seething with rage that the bridge was closed to cyclists due to the enormous diversion, lack of thought behind the decision, and unfairness.

Just think of people who commute to work by cycle across the bridge (aware that a half hearted workaround for limited time period in the working day is in place now).

Unfortunate incidents/accidents and death happens all of the time on roads, but the road afterwards isn’t permanently closed to cars/coaches/lorries, etc.

The bridge board should think seriously about additional and fit for purpose fencing as in place on other bridges.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by thirdcrank »

I'm a believer in cock-up theory, having witnessed / been involved in loads - some down to me.

On p 6 I hinted at that.
I wonder if this decision has been taken at a local level ie somebody at the bridge who hasn't thought it through. The way the information has emerged, rather than being publicised and the subject of consultation leads me to that supposition.
My suspicion that this is neither a conspiracy nor a cunning plan is reinforced by what's happened since, which seems to be little more than a return to the status quo.

We may never know the details, largely because there's nobody really to find out. Or the story may emerge at a coroner's inquest.

I fancy that the background to any decisions made by the HBB is that this bridge has always been a financial white elephant and there's no money.
Steady rider
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by Steady rider »

What options are available?
1)
Provide a person at both ends of one cycle lane, to check that they appears OK to cross the bridge, close off the other lane.
2)
Provide a mini bus service to cater for cyclists and pedestrians
3)
Close one traffic lane and allow to be used for cyclists.
4)
Provide high fencing, 2km would be needed per side, assume one side is used.
5)
Allow cyclists on the main road, with a reduced speed limit of 30 mph and requirements not to pass unless at least 1m clearance can be provided, subject to cameras and enforcement measures.
6)
Open one cycle path and provide extended fencing as soon as possible, allows normal use to recommence.
Jdsk
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 9:14pm
Steady rider wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 8:29pmThe suicide cases may go to an alternative location.
This is discussed above. It doesn't seem to happen in practice. That's in line with the current view that removing the immediate means for suicide reduces the rate and doesn't simply displace to another means.
It's a very difficult subject to study. Trials are difficult. Suicide by jumping is rare and suicide by other means is common so it's hard to find the signal if there is any displacement. Background rates of suicide aren't constant. So levels of evidence will be low.

But I've just found a Cochrane systematic review from 2020*:
"Means restriction to prevent suicide by jumping"
https://www.cochrane.org/CD013543/DEPRE ... de-jumping
https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/do ... 13543/full

Here are the key findings in full, from the plain language summary:

"We found 14 relevant studies. Three studies each were from Switzerland and the USA, while two studies each were from the UK, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia respectively. The majority of studies had a before‐and‐after study design. Due to the observational nature of our included studies, none compared other interventions or control conditions. Jumping means restriction interventions delivered in isolation or in combination with other interventions were found to reduce the number of suicides by jumping. Data on suicide attempts were limited and no study reported self‐harm. A cost‐effectiveness analysis suggested that the construction of a physical barrier on a bridge would be cost‐effective in the long term. The evidence for these assessments was of low quality because of weaknesses in study design and differences in findings between studies, therefore requiring the need for further high‐quality studies."

And specifically on displacement:

"For suicide by jumping, displacement to other jumping locations is probably more likely than a change in method. Some of our included studies included displacement to other jumping sites as an outcome ‐ with the majority showing minimal displacement."

They included an analysis which showed that a barrier would be highly cost-effective.

Jonathan

* Statement of interest: One of the authors is a friend and was a colleague.
Steady rider
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by Steady rider »

Jdsk, Good points to consider.

At about 2000 m long and assuming about £100 per meter, total cost £200,000 for a high barriers to be installed? Seems a low estimate, perhaps others could provide better estimate. Assuming light weight materials are used and perhaps simply clamping methods may be sufficient, with extra bracing.
It looks viable and could be raised by public support. Does this look to be the best option to suggest. Could the local press/TV give their support?
Cyril Haearn
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Steady rider wrote: 18 Apr 2021, 6:38pm What options are available?
1)
Provide a person at both ends of one cycle lane, to check that they appears OK to cross the bridge, close off the other lane.
2)
Provide a mini bus service to cater for cyclists and pedestrians
3)
Close one traffic lane and allow to be used for cyclists.
4)
Provide high fencing, 2km would be needed per side, assume one side is used.
5)
Allow cyclists on the main road, with a reduced speed limit of 30 mph and requirements not to pass unless at least 1m clearance can be provided, subject to cameras and enforcement measures.
6)
Open one cycle path and provide extended fencing as soon as possible, allows normal use to recommence.
5) at least TWO METERS!!
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PaulS
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Location: East Yorkshire

Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by PaulS »

markjohnobrien wrote: 18 Apr 2021, 12:13pm I must admit that if I lived in this area, used the bridge regularly (whether for commuting to work recreational cycling - any form of cycling really), I’d be seething with rage that the bridge was closed to cyclists
I do, I do, and I am. So... What is the best way to give them maximum headache, for my minimum effort? (Without ruining a ride or giving myself a stomach ulcer).
Cyril Haearn
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Perhaps you could organise a flash mob of hundreds of cyclists to claim the carriageway, breaking the law could be justified maybe
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Pete Owens
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by Pete Owens »

Steady rider wrote: 18 Apr 2021, 6:38pm What options are available?
1)
Provide a person at both ends of one cycle lane, to check that they appears OK to cross the bridge, close off the other lane.
2)
Provide a mini bus service to cater for cyclists and pedestrians
3)
Close one traffic lane and allow to be used for cyclists.
4)
Provide high fencing, 2km would be needed per side, assume one side is used.
5)
Allow cyclists on the main road, with a reduced speed limit of 30 mph and requirements not to pass unless at least 1m clearance can be provided, subject to cameras and enforcement measures.
6)
Open one cycle path and provide extended fencing as soon as possible, allows normal use to recommence.
Why overcomplicate it?
3) is obviously possible and straight forward to set up. If for some reason one of the carriageways was blocked or needed to to be repaired then they would set of a contraflow on the other carriageway. They most certainly would not issue a statement saying that the bridge was closed to northbound motor traffic for the foreseeable future.

5) Just remove the ban. It is rather worrying that you should even suggest that those conditions are necessary to allow cycling on a road as it would effectively justify the prohibition of cycling as a means of transport outside built up areas. However much you consider low speeds or close passing enforcement desirable this cannot be a precondition for allowing us to use the roads. And actually it is only cyclists that are prohibited from the carriageway; walking is allowed.

1) That is a heck of a responsibility for the person stationed at each end.

2) Given that the pandemic isn't over, requiring people to get into a minibus would be utterly irresponsible.

4) Would not be unreasonable so long as pedestrians and cyclists were allowed to continue using the bridge until the fencing is put in place. (effectively option 6)

Of course in a free society there is option 7. If someone wants to jump off the bridge what right has anyone else to stop them?
Steady rider
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Joined: 4 Jan 2009, 4:31pm

Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by Steady rider »

Pete
They have two lanes in each direction, so they could have closed one lane to cater for cyclists. With high winds at times, no verge, having extra provisions of a lower speed limit and requiring a minimum passing distance, that they could enforce with cameras, seems a reasonable idea.

In any case suicide is not illegal, so they are trying to prevent something that is not illegal and in the process stopping something that the bridge is designed to cater for, cyclists and pedestrian use. They have acted without consulting and against the purposes of the bridge. Cyclists may end up on a bus service and in congested areas and have a higher risk.

I agree 'remove the ban' but they could take extra steps, signs 'Are you at breaking point' with an emergency phone help line and start on the process of looking to install high fencing. Your point no 4 I agree with.

A protest event I would support by attending.
PaulS
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Joined: 26 Jan 2012, 6:45am
Location: East Yorkshire

Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by PaulS »

From today's paper (from incident in 2019). That particular suicide seems well planned rather than spur of the moment.

"...had driven 130-miles from his home ... to the bridge."

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hu ... ve-5314051
Last edited by PaulS on 19 Apr 2021, 1:10pm, edited 1 time in total.
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