Humber Bridge now open to cyclists & pedestrians

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thirdcrank
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by thirdcrank »

The fact (?) of its being private property shouldn't make a difference. Perhaps there's a Humber Bridge Act which spells out everything.

Otherwise:-
“road”

(a)in relation to England and Wales, means any highway and any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes, ....
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/19 ... ection/192

Looking at streetview, there are various traffic signs which appear to be there to inform road users of what is either a traffic regulation order (TRO) or something similar under any Humber Bridge Act or whatever. Now, with any TRO, there are typically loads of exceptions including something on the lines of "... on the directions of a constable." (Nowadays extended to include PCSO, Traffic Officer and I suspect on the Humber Bridge, something like "employee of the Humber Bridge Authority.") The point being that there will be times when eg traffic has to be directed the wrong way down a one-way street. The police also have a general duty at common law to direct traffic.

A problem can arise if different officials take uncoordinated action or what they say is misinterpreted.

Somebody - possibly Ben Lovejoy - posted about a Critical Mass event where some police were directing riders to ignore traffic lights to keep them moving and others were stopping and reporting them for doing so.
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by mjr »

thirdcrank wrote: 7 Apr 2021, 12:10pm The fact (?) of its being private property shouldn't make a difference. Perhaps there's a Humber Bridge Act which spells out everything. [...]

Now, with any TRO, there are typically loads of exceptions including something on the lines of "... on the directions of a constable." (Nowadays extended to include PCSO, Traffic Officer and I suspect on the Humber Bridge, something like "employee of the Humber Bridge Authority.")
There are three Humber Bridge Acts, but only the most recent (2013) is online. I agree with the implication that the police were mistaken with that statement. After all, footpaths are even more clearly over private property and the landowner doesn't get a free hand.

The expression now is something like "agent of the relevant highway authority" and the 2013 Act makes the Humber Bridge Board a highway authority for RTRA (and so for TROs).
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thirdcrank
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by thirdcrank »

Contingency planning is important: having your hindsight in advance.

With somewhere like the Humber Bridge, a lot of the problems can be anticipated: winds above a certain speed = ban high-siders; wind speed even higher = close the bridge. Something like that might even be automated and doesn't involve consulting more senior people. Most contingencies, especially high winds are temporary and self-evident eg wind back to normal = traffic back to normal. Something like the bridge being hit by a plane = immediate closure to traffic + reopening dependent on expert examination of bridge. No-brainer so far.

I suspect that the routine operation of the bridge does not involve a hierarchy of officials. I wonder if this decision has been taken at a local level ie somebody at the bridge who hasn't thought it through. The way the information has emerged, rather than being publicised and the subject of consultation leads me to that supposition.
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by Vorpal »

thirdcrank wrote: 7 Apr 2021, 12:10pm
A problem can arise if different officials take uncoordinated action or what they say is misinterpreted.

Somebody - possibly Ben Lovejoy - posted about a Critical Mass event where some police were directing riders to ignore traffic lights to keep them moving and others were stopping and reporting them for doing so.
Slightly off-topic, but I'm not sure that you have provided an example of uncoordinated action :wink:
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thirdcrank
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by thirdcrank »

I had in mind the Critical Mass incident I mentioned.

One long arm of the law was waving cyclists through red lights and the other was taking names and addresses for RLJing.

IIRC, the implication on the original thread was that it wasn't a lack of co-ordination but misconduct.

===============================================================
PS I've been doing the absent Ben Lovejoy a disservice. He did start a thread about CM but seemed pleased with police involvement so it must have been somebody else.

viewtopic.php?p=89291#p89291

================================================================

PPS In the interests of completeness (and to reassure myself that my memory is not shot) here's the thread I had in mind.

viewtopic.php?p=139638#p139638
millimole
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by millimole »


thirdcrank wrote:Contingency planning is important: having your hindsight in advance.

I wonder if this decision has been taken at a local level ie somebody at the bridge who hasn't thought it through. The way the information has emerged, rather than being publicised and the subject of consultation leads me to that supposition.
Thats a very interesting theory, and would seem to fit the chain of events very well.
There may well be some red faces currently trying to deal with the situation without dropping someone in the proverbial.
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by simonhill »

Different attitude to cycling bridges.
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by Jdsk »

Cycling UK article, with their letter to the Humber Bridge Board:
https://www.cyclinguk.org/news/cycling- ... edestrians

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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by Paulatic »

Open now for commuters. Seems to be you give them a call and get permission to cross.
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by mjr »

Jdsk wrote: 9 Apr 2021, 6:04pm Cycling UK article, with their letter to the Humber Bridge Board:
https://www.cyclinguk.org/news/cycling- ... edestrians
Hull Daily Mail reports commuters may cross next week if they phone the bridge office before departure and the routes will reopen in full from next month: https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hu ... rs-5281666
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thirdcrank
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by thirdcrank »

Paulatic wrote: 9 Apr 2021, 7:28pm Open now for commuters. Seems to be you give them a call and get permission to cross.
Where does that come from? I cannot see anything more recent than 6 April on the bridge www.

.............................................................................

Found this in the Humber Live link
... in the meantime, people needing to cross the bridge for work by foot or cycle will be asked to phone the bridge board offices to provide their details in advance.
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by KTHSullivan »

Local BBC News has just announced that the bridge will be open for commuters at the start of next week. On the basis that one books to get across. Open for tourism in May apparently but I understand from this evenings report that the Bridge Authority are intending to install some further CCTV before that happens.

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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by mjr »

KTHSullivan wrote: 10 Apr 2021, 6:40pm but I understand from this evenings report that the Bridge Authority are intending to install some further CCTV before that happens.
Maybe I shouldn't post this, but how will CCTV help? Can the bridge workers run/drive from their posts quick enough to reach a jumper?
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by KTHSullivan »

mjr wrote: 10 Apr 2021, 6:58pm
KTHSullivan wrote: 10 Apr 2021, 6:40pm but I understand from this evenings report that the Bridge Authority are intending to install some further CCTV before that happens.
Maybe I shouldn't post this, but how will CCTV help? Can the bridge workers run/drive from their posts quick enough to reach a jumper?
I really don't know, I suppose that they are endeavouring to be seen to be doing something. They were also talking about appointing "wardens". But to be quite honest I can't foresee how that might improve the situation either. I have a friend that works as a Humber Pilot, he maintains that most of the poor souls usually jump from the centre of the span, which is roughly half a mile from the end where the bridge control is.

He is occasionally tasked with to provide the authorities with an approximate estimate of where the people may be washed ashore, obviously he knows the river intimately due to his profession.
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Re: Humber Bridge closed to cyclists & pedestrians indefinitely

Post by millimole »

mjr wrote:
KTHSullivan wrote: 10 Apr 2021, 6:40pm but I understand from this evenings report that the Bridge Authority are intending to install some further CCTV before that happens.
Maybe I shouldn't post this, but how will CCTV help? Can the bridge workers run/drive from their posts quick enough to reach a jumper?
A family member who has a little knowledge of this type of thing suggests that potential suicide individuals will demonstrate behaviour that indicates their intent. Their experience is on railway stations, and apparently these souls are relatively easy to spot by their behaviour.
I'd imagine that seeing someone walking purposefully walking over the bridge would be something of a 'green flag', but someone dithering uncertainly might be a warning sign.
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