Local elections 2021

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mjr
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Re: Local elections 2021

Post by mjr »

Psamathe wrote: 10 May 2021, 12:27pm I still "invalidate" my PCC ballot paper as I strongly disagree with the politicalisation of the PCC posts. Why should our Police in effect be run by a political ly selected individual? Policing should be apolitical.
The police were run by politically-selected individuals long before there were elected Commissioners. Two-thirds of the old Police Authorities which they replaced were appointed by the county and district councils who seemed to carve posts up in smoke-filled rooms.

While I agree somewhat that police shouldn't be political, elected Commissioners is better than such stitch-ups and sinecures.
Whenever I've e-mailed my PCC asking questions (rather than just comment) I've never had a response.
Commissioner Betts (Ind, 2012-2016) replied and also held public meetings in each major town at least annually, in addition to various other public events. Commissioner Greene (Con, 2016-2021) never replied and I never saw him.

Regarding the "invalidate" protest: the number of spoiled ballot papers is cited by Minister Patel as a reason to change to the less fair winner-takes-all voting system.

THE ABOVE MESSAGE HAS BEEN SILENTLY CHANGED BY THE MODERATORS.
Last edited by mjr on 11 May 2021, 9:52am, edited 1 time in total.
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Psamathe
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Re: Local elections 2021

Post by Psamathe »

mjr wrote: 10 May 2021, 3:32pm .....
Regarding the "invalidate" protest: the number of spoiled ballot papers is cited by Minister Patel as a reason to change to the less fair winner-takes-all voting system.
I've actually only had the opportunity to do the spoilt ballot paper once and that was when I was involved in the local Green Party who reviewed candidates and came to the decision that the only viable way to "none of the above" is a spoilt ballot as not voting is ignored but spoilt ballots are counted as viewed more as a "message".

As I said, I was unable to vote this election as I was too bad/ill to get to the Polling Station (which was actually in the village).

Ian
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mjr
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Re: Local elections 2021

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Stevek76 wrote: 10 May 2021, 3:25pm The blunt reality is that, in a UK city since about 2000 onwards, you can't be 'pro-motorist', there simply isn't space to do anything. You can either be 'anti-motorist' and actually make progress, or do nothing and tread water at best.
Not just cities. Even in a small market town, if most of the cars weren't idle most of the time, the town would effectively gridlock, because the area of tarmac required for even 20mph ( (car width + 1.5m passing distance) x (car length + 6m thinking distance) x number of cars in the town ) is often much more than the total road space.
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ratherbeintobago
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Re: Local elections 2021

Post by ratherbeintobago »

mjr wrote: 10 May 2021, 3:41pm
Stevek76 wrote: 10 May 2021, 3:25pm The blunt reality is that, in a UK city since about 2000 onwards, you can't be 'pro-motorist', there simply isn't space to do anything. You can either be 'anti-motorist' and actually make progress, or do nothing and tread water at best.
Not just cities. Even in a small market town, if most of the cars weren't idle most of the time, the town would effectively gridlock, because the area of tarmac required for even 20mph ( (car width + 1.5m passing distance) x (car length + 6m thinking distance) x number of cars in the town ) is often much more than the total road space.
Big issue round here is wasted space - wide roads that would easily take a protected lane, but instead the council has put in hatching and on one main road, a ridiculous, hundreds of metres long central reservation which invites close passes… on a 30mph residential road.
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Re: Local elections 2021

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Psamathe wrote: 10 May 2021, 3:40pm
mjr wrote: 10 May 2021, 3:32pm .....
Regarding the "invalidate" protest: the number of spoiled ballot papers is cited by Minister Patel as a reason to change to the less fair winner-takes-all voting system.
[...] came to the decision that the only viable way to "none of the above" is a spoilt ballot as not voting is ignored but spoilt ballots are counted as viewed more as a "message".
Except that message has been viewed as "this voting system is too complicated" and not "none of the above", as was always likely. It would have been better if you had not voted and wrote to MPs objecting to the concept — but the obvious question is: did you prefer the previous system of ruling councillors doing it for you, usually without consultation or even informing you?
As I said I was unable to vote this election [...]
Minister Patel's proposal was made before this election.
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Re: Local elections 2021

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ratherbeintobago wrote: 10 May 2021, 3:48pm Big issue round here is wasted space - wide roads that would easily take a protected lane, but instead the council has put in hatching and on one main road, a ridiculous, hundreds of metres long central reservation which invites close passes… on a 30mph residential road.
Yes, I remember objecting to central hatching years ago and being told by a council officer that it was good for cyclists because the remaining narrow lanes encouraged drivers to make a definite decision to enter the central hatching and then they would enter it fully and pass at a great distance — which of course, they do not, preferring to drive on the hatching as little as possible because it's bumpy, it's full of debris and a surprising number of drivers believe it is illegal to drive on (but they drive on it anyway if "forced to overtake" by a cyclist).
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ratherbeintobago
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Re: Local elections 2021

Post by ratherbeintobago »

mjr wrote: 10 May 2021, 3:54pm
ratherbeintobago wrote: 10 May 2021, 3:48pm Big issue round here is wasted space - wide roads that would easily take a protected lane, but instead the council has put in hatching and on one main road, a ridiculous, hundreds of metres long central reservation which invites close passes… on a 30mph residential road.
Yes, I remember objecting to central hatching years ago and being told by a council officer that it was good for cyclists because the remaining narrow lanes encouraged drivers to make a definite decision to enter the central hatching and then they would enter it fully and pass at a great distance — which of course, they do not, preferring to drive on the hatching as little as possible because it's bumpy, it's full of debris and a surprising number of drivers believe it is illegal to drive on (but they drive on it anyway if "forced to overtake" by a cyclist).
The Ranty Highwayman (who is worth following on Twitter if you're so minded) has described it as high speed road infrastructure that has somehow come to be applied to residential roads.
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Re: Local elections 2021

Post by Stevek76 »

Central hatching does slow drivers a little due to the physiological affect of the narrowing. It's often implemented because it's cheap 'traffic calming' and the local authority is ignorant as to better ways to improve the street (or in rural situations part of a progression of historic 10m wide single carriageway with central 'sucide lane' to 2x 5m to 2x 3.5m with hatching)

And sometimes its there becuase the local authority cannot countenance the reduction in capacity that removing right turn bays would generate.

And yes it's a complete and utter waste of space. Between central hatching and parking there are very few major streets that don't have sufficient room for decent stepped cycle tracks.

mjr wrote: 10 May 2021, 4:02pm Which is irrelevant because the change was proposed in response to high numbers of spoiled ballots in the last two PCC elections, as I've already pointed out and you would know if you read the posts.
Not really, that's just a token excuse, the change is chiefly because conservatives know that FPTP is vital to their survival and they wish to remove any experience of greater choice from english voters so they don't get used to it.
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Re: Local elections 2021

Post by Bmblbzzz »

mjr wrote: 10 May 2021, 3:41pm
Stevek76 wrote: 10 May 2021, 3:25pm The blunt reality is that, in a UK city since about 2000 onwards, you can't be 'pro-motorist', there simply isn't space to do anything. You can either be 'anti-motorist' and actually make progress, or do nothing and tread water at best.
Not just cities. Even in a small market town, if most of the cars weren't idle most of the time, the town would effectively gridlock, because the area of tarmac required for even 20mph ( (car width + 1.5m passing distance) x (car length + 6m thinking distance) x number of cars in the town ) is often much more than the total road space.
Yes, this is something that Rees (and I'm sure many other mayors and councils) have failed to realise: the RPZs can't truly reduce congestion and parking pressure until they reduce the number of cars owned by residents – which means that at least the 2nd and 3rd permits, if not the first, have to substantially increase in price.
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Re: Local elections 2021

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Stevek76 wrote: 10 May 2021, 3:25pm
Bmblbzzz wrote: 10 May 2021, 2:01pm I think that's a correct analysis – unfortunately. However, from a political perspective Rees's opposition to CAZ and pro-active travel action might seem justified, when you bear in mind that in other circles he is being thought of as anti-motorist. Here's a typical quote, and no, it's not from the comments on BristolLive:
As was demonstrated in waltham forest in previous years and noted earlier in this thread on the results this year, trying to be 'pro-motorist' in cities is a vote loser. It might seem justified, but the siren call of the angry motorist is a poor trap to fall into, they are far louder than their actual voting power.

The blunt reality is that, in a UK city since about 2000 onwards, you can't be 'pro-motorist', there simply isn't space to do anything. You can either be 'anti-motorist' and actually make progress, or do nothing and tread water at best.

The problem with the latter is that the angry sub-urban motorist still can't drive their car with impunity without getting stuck in their own traffic and everyone trying to get about by other methods sees no improvement either, thus you end up as Rees has, simultaneously seen as just as anti-car as Ferguson was before him and pro-car (and thus anti walk/cycle/bus) by everyone else.
Yes, he's wedged himself firmly between the devil and deep blue sea. I don't think he is precisely "pro-car" (though he's certainly not "pro-walk/cycle/bus/etc") more that he's paranoid about losing the support of Labour voters in the poorer outer regions such as Hartcliffe and Filton. Again, politically his fear might have some justification, but then again he's not doing much to give the poorest a better bus service, which we really need. I think most of Bristol would rather have a better bus service today than an underground in ten years or a "metrobus" (it's just a bus) yesterday.
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Re: Local elections 2021

Post by Pete Owens »

Stevek76 wrote: 10 May 2021, 4:14pm Central hatching does slow drivers a little due to the physiological affect of the narrowing.
The effect on speed is negligable unless the lane widths are very narrow.

The benefit to cyclists is that it can reduce the incidence of close passes by moving the oncoming traffic further away, thus creating more space for overtaking. Whereas, using the same space to provide cycle lanes causes closer overtakes.
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Re: Local elections 2021

Post by ratherbeintobago »

Pete Owens wrote: 10 May 2021, 5:18pm
Stevek76 wrote: 10 May 2021, 4:14pm Central hatching does slow drivers a little due to the physiological affect of the narrowing.
The effect on speed is negligable unless the lane widths are very narrow.

The benefit to cyclists is that it can reduce the incidence of close passes by moving the oncoming traffic further away, thus creating more space for overtaking. Whereas, using the same space to provide cycle lanes causes closer overtakes.
Of course, that depends if the lanes are properly segregated, doesn’t it? Unfortunately the local council seems to think paint saves lives.
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Re: Local elections 2021

Post by Stevek76 »

I guess the 'pro-car' is my perspective slightly. I'd consider simply maintaining the heavy subsidy that urban driving receives as 'pro car' :)

And yes, he certainly has concerns of impact on low incomes, but he's also been shown local data on car ownership vs income & deprivation, the impacts of air pollution by the same measures and really struggles to make the link that re-distributive economics is an option that would be open to him. Which is very puzzling for an apparently socialist party.

Sure there would be a small number of cases of very low income households affected but the revenue from any charge would provide more than enough to compensate those worst affected (cleaner vehicle, limited exemptions, free bus travel etc)

Buses would help though but he's shown little enthusiasm for franchising and operators would want to see council actions to discourage car use to enter into any substantial partnership so that's back at square one again.

Also on the bus thing, as much as they need improving, I do feel there are certain sections of Labour, including the one behind Rees, that have a rather ugly inverted snobbery attitude to cycling and consider bus options more favourably to the detriment of the former. International experience indicates that doesn't work, the transport hierarchy puts cycling above buses for a very good reason, it's simply better. It's cheaper, quicker, door to door and on demand. The infrastructure is also much cheaper to implement and if you want to get cars out of the way of buses it's a very good way of doing it.
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Re: Local elections 2021

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Well obviously cycling is better than buses! Nevertheless, in Bristol, in the UK, in the worlds as a whole, buses transport far more people than bikes do.

I think he'd have loved to be able to not do anything about clean air.
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Re: Local elections 2021

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Bmblbzzz wrote: 10 May 2021, 7:54pm Well obviously cycling is better than buses! Nevertheless, in Bristol, in the UK, in the worlds as a whole, buses transport far more people than bikes do.
Is that true on a world level? Exact numbers are difficult to find for people rather than journeys or people-miles but it looks like not. Maybe you mixed it up with buses transporting more people-miles.
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