Local elections 2021

Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Local elections 2021

Post by Psamathe »

I still "invalidate" my PCC ballot paper as I strongly disagree with the politicalisation of the PCC posts. Why should our Police in effect be run by a political ly selected individual? Policing should be apolitical.

So somebody standing on the basis of their being Conservative or Labour or Lib Dem, etc. is
  • appoint the Chief Constable, hold them to account for running the force, and if necessary dismiss them;
    set the police and crime objectives for their area through a police and crime plan;
    set the force budget and determine the precept;
    contribute to the national and international policing capabilities set out by the Home Secretary; and
    bring together community safety and criminal justice partners, to make sure local priorities are joined up
Whenever I've e-mailed my PCC asking questions (rather than just comment) I've never had a response.

(Though this election I didn't get to spoil my ballot paper as I was not up to getting to the Polling Station to cast any ballot!)

Ian
Bmblbzzz
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Location: From here to there.

Re: Local elections 2021

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Jdsk wrote: 10 May 2021, 11:38am Anyone from Bristol... ?

Jonathan
The loss of Kye Dudd could be either positive or negative, depending on who he's replaced with, but he does seem to have been the only one to get a few things done since Ferguson. I'm not aware of Norris's attitudes but hopefully(!) having city mayor and WSM at least broadly aligned might enable more to get done.
Stevek76
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Joined: 28 Jul 2015, 11:23am

Re: Local elections 2021

Post by Stevek76 »

Kye, as both Threfal and Bradshaw before him were on very tight leashes held by the mayor's office. All three are far more positive about active travel than it appeared and likely done far more had they been allowed to.

Bradshaw was removed after he disagreed with the mayor's procrastination via his 'congestion task force' (a talking shop) and threfal appears to have at least partly left the role out of frustration.

That Kye got a bit more done is broadly a reflection of Rees (and his office) softening a little on their opposition to anything that could be seen to hinder car use towards the end of the term. Some of the summer measures were also in significant part because he thought it might allow him to avoid a D class CAZ as 'charging private cars' is a massive red line for him.

Rees's return with a lower voteshare and the loss of labour cllrs can be probably partly down to lack of action on walk/cycle matters. He lost a great deal of the younger centrally living vote that he'd picked up in 2016 on the back of the corbyn wave after they'd realised they'd been sold a pup and the greenwash wasn't working. There were other issues, scrapping the central arena in a dubious and borderline corrupt manner was unlikely to have gone down well with that demographic, his support of airport expansion also rather tarnishes claims of environmental concerns.

Personally I had him down as all talk and no substance back in 2012 and never voted for him, but was not surprised to see him get through again this time. At the mayor level there was sufficient uncertainty about who the main contender might be and a number of the above voters were also operating under the illusion that the conservatives were a serious threat (part of the labour campaign tried to play this up, and the green one to counter it). Looking at the councillor vote totals, the greens actually pulled in slightly more.

A large problem he has, and one that doesn't bode all that well for the next three years, is that he/his office seem to have a bit of an old fashioned socialist perception of cycling and that the central areas are just richer soft tories on bikes. It's also heavily linked to the first mayor, Ferguson, who Rees seems to have a chip on his shoulder about losing too and a natural dislike to anything Ferguson supported or did. Hence the initial opposition to 20mph limits & RPZs and the ease with which was persuaded to drop the arena.
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markjohnobrien
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Joined: 4 Oct 2007, 8:15pm

Re: Local elections 2021

Post by markjohnobrien »

Psamathe wrote: 10 May 2021, 12:27pm I still "invalidate" my PCC ballot paper as I strongly disagree with the politicalisation of the PCC posts. Why should our Police in effect be run by a political ly selected individual? Policing should be apolitical.

So somebody standing on the basis of their being Conservative or Labour or Lib Dem, etc. is
  • appoint the Chief Constable, hold them to account for running the force, and if necessary dismiss them;
    set the police and crime objectives for their area through a police and crime plan;
    set the force budget and determine the precept;
    contribute to the national and international policing capabilities set out by the Home Secretary; and
    bring together community safety and criminal justice partners, to make sure local priorities are joined up
Whenever I've e-mailed my PCC asking questions (rather than just comment) I've never had a response.

(Though this election I didn't get to spoil my ballot paper as I was not up to getting to the Polling Station to cast any ballot!)

Ian
I agree: it’s an additional layer of bureaucracy and, more importantly, is politicisation of the local police force.

Dreadful idea by the Cameron government. The sooner it is scrapped the better.
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Pete Owens
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Joined: 7 Jul 2008, 12:52am

Re: Local elections 2021

Post by Pete Owens »

Psamathe wrote: 10 May 2021, 12:27pm I still "invalidate" my PCC ballot paper as I strongly disagree with the politicalisation of the PCC posts. Why should our Police in effect be run by a political ly selected individual? Policing should be apolitical.
Personally, I prefer to live in a democracy rather than a police state.
Bmblbzzz
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Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Local elections 2021

Post by Bmblbzzz »

I think that's a correct analysis – unfortunately. However, from a political perspective Rees's opposition to CAZ and pro-active travel action might seem justified, when you bear in mind that in other circles he is being thought of as anti-motorist. Here's a typical quote, and no, it's not from the comments on BristolLive:
The problem with Bristol City Council seems to be, as far as I can tell, that unless you walk or cycle they couldn't give a **** and simply wish to make life hell for motorists
Whether the big Labour losses to the Greens will change Rees's opinion on that, I don't know. Actually, I doubt it. He's won re-election as mayor, already dismissed the Green vote in his acceptance speech, and doesn't have much time for the council whoever is in it. (I'd also say the Green vote is partly due to dissatisfaction with Labour nationally, not strictly relevant on a local level.)
Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Local elections 2021

Post by Psamathe »

Pete Owens wrote: 10 May 2021, 2:00pm
Psamathe wrote: 10 May 2021, 12:27pm I still "invalidate" my PCC ballot paper as I strongly disagree with the politicalisation of the PCC posts. Why should our Police in effect be run by a political ly selected individual? Policing should be apolitical.
Personally, I prefer to live in a democracy rather than a police state.
I can't see how PCCs improve democracy. Police enforce the law which should be as passed by our legislature, etc. Should not be down to a Conservative or Labour or Lib Dem to be prioritising their political views about enforcement priorities and having the "hire and fire" to hold over the Chief Constable. Why should some laws (loved by Conservatives) have stronger enforcement in some areas and not enforced in other areas.

We've had a democracy running for many more years than we've had PCCs or were we in a "Police State" back then?

Ian
ratherbeintobago
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Re: Local elections 2021

Post by ratherbeintobago »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 10 May 2021, 2:01pm(I'd also say the Green vote is partly due to dissatisfaction with Labour nationally, not strictly relevant on a local level.)
Funnily enough, I've seen a similar view being expressed on a forum associated with another political party. I think there's something in it, but Lab don't massively help themselves on green issues (easily the least environmentally prominent of the three/four national parties) which are said to be more important to The Youth.
ratherbeintobago
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Joined: 5 Dec 2010, 6:31pm

Re: Local elections 2021

Post by ratherbeintobago »

Psamathe wrote: 10 May 2021, 2:06pmI can't see how PCCs improve democracy.
We don't have one as the PCC powers have been rolled into the Mayor's office.

Entirely unconnectedly, the police force is in special measures. This is nothing to do with the mayor, of course.
mattheus
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Re: Local elections 2021

Post by mattheus »

ratherbeintobago wrote: 10 May 2021, 2:07pm
Bmblbzzz wrote: 10 May 2021, 2:01pm(I'd also say the Green vote is partly due to dissatisfaction with Labour nationally, not strictly relevant on a local level.)
Funnily enough, I've seen a similar view being expressed on a forum associated with another political party. I think there's something in it, but Lab don't massively help themselves on green issues (easily the least environmentally prominent of the three/four national parties) which are said to be more important to The Youth.
Perhaps this is where Andy Burnham has scored so well? He's very much behind green travel policies on his manor, and gets a lot of press exposure for them (helped no doubt by that lovely Chris Boardman!)
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Local elections 2021

Post by Jdsk »

mattheus wrote: 10 May 2021, 2:19pmPerhaps this is where Andy Burnham has scored so well? He's very much behind green travel policies on his manor, and gets a lot of press exposure for them (helped no doubt by that lovely Chris Boardman!)
Very interesting. Leadership is important, and isn't only about delivery.

I was going to comment in that recent thread about London on cities leading where national policies seem stymied.

Jonathan
ratherbeintobago
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Joined: 5 Dec 2010, 6:31pm

Re: Local elections 2021

Post by ratherbeintobago »

Ayem unfortunately, there's nothing he can do about the councils who either don't want to engage with active travel (the main offenders being Rochdale, Oldham and the City of Manchester), or who see cycling solely as a leisure activity. And he is the teflon mayor I mentioned above, who is not responsible for the state of GMP despite holding the PCC powers.
Jdsk wrote: 10 May 2021, 2:22pmI was going to comment in that recent thread about London on cities leading where national policies seem stymied.
Salford is, by all accounts, doing great work. "We're not Utrecht" and "we're not London" are arguments towns can make, "we're not Salford", on the other hand...
Last edited by ratherbeintobago on 10 May 2021, 2:33pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Local elections 2021

Post by Bmblbzzz »

ratherbeintobago wrote: 10 May 2021, 2:07pm
Bmblbzzz wrote: 10 May 2021, 2:01pm(I'd also say the Green vote is partly due to dissatisfaction with Labour nationally, not strictly relevant on a local level.)
Funnily enough, I've seen a similar view being expressed on a forum associated with another political party. I think there's something in it, but Lab don't massively help themselves on green issues (easily the least environmentally prominent of the three/four national parties) which are said to be more important to The Youth.
Which party is that? It seems to me people are now voting Green (locally at least) not only for environmental reasons but for social and economic ones too. One of the newly elected Green councillors even suggested they'd taken seats from Labour (all but two of their gains were from Labour) because Labour weren't left-wing enough. Of course, that's just her analysis, not necessarily what voters thought, but presumably she'd spoken to some in her campaigning.

Another thing I note is that in the mayoral election, not only did the Green candidate make the cut-off, but Rees's winning margin was almost the same before and after second preference votes, suggesting LDs and Conservatives were giving their second votes to Green. I suppose that might be on a Hobson's choice basis!
ratherbeintobago
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Joined: 5 Dec 2010, 6:31pm

Re: Local elections 2021

Post by ratherbeintobago »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 10 May 2021, 2:31pm Which party is that? It seems to me people are now voting Green (locally at least) not only for environmental reasons but for social and economic ones too. One of the newly elected Green councillors even suggested they'd taken seats from Labour (all but two of their gains were from Labour) because Labour weren't left-wing enough. Of course, that's just her analysis, not necessarily what voters thought, but presumably she'd spoken to some in her campaigning.

Another thing I note is that in the mayoral election, not only did the Green candidate make the cut-off, but Rees's winning margin was almost the same before and after second preference votes, suggesting LDs and Conservatives were giving their second votes to Green. I suppose that might be on a Hobson's choice basis!
Lib Dem (Voice).

I wouldn't be astonished if a load of the Corbynist fringe switched to the Greens - very different to, say, Germany where the Greens are centre left/social democratic.
Stevek76
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Joined: 28 Jul 2015, 11:23am

Re: Local elections 2021

Post by Stevek76 »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 10 May 2021, 2:01pm I think that's a correct analysis – unfortunately. However, from a political perspective Rees's opposition to CAZ and pro-active travel action might seem justified, when you bear in mind that in other circles he is being thought of as anti-motorist. Here's a typical quote, and no, it's not from the comments on BristolLive:
As was demonstrated in waltham forest in previous years and noted earlier in this thread on the results this year, trying to be 'pro-motorist' in cities is a vote loser. It might seem justified, but the siren call of the angry motorist is a poor trap to fall into, they are far louder than their actual voting power.

The blunt reality is that, in a UK city since about 2000 onwards, you can't be 'pro-motorist', there simply isn't space to do anything. You can either be 'anti-motorist' and actually make progress, or do nothing and tread water at best.

The problem with the latter is that the angry sub-urban motorist still can't drive their car with impunity without getting stuck in their own traffic and everyone trying to get about by other methods sees no improvement either, thus you end up as Rees has, simultaneously seen as just as anti-car as Ferguson was before him and pro-car (and thus anti walk/cycle/bus) by everyone else.

Unfortunately the advisers he surrounds himself understand none of this and dismiss knowledge from those who do. Even allowing for the initial misperception based on the controversy that Ferguson's RPZs and 20mph generated, it should surely have become rapidly apparent that he was barking up the wrong tree given the hostility he received when 'reviewing' (i.e. trying to remove) them.
Bmblbzzz wrote: 10 May 2021, 2:01pmWhether the big Labour losses to the Greens will change Rees's opinion on that, I don't know. Actually, I doubt it. He's won re-election as mayor, already dismissed the Green vote in his acceptance speech, and doesn't have much time for the council whoever is in it. (I'd also say the Green vote is partly due to dissatisfaction with Labour nationally, not strictly relevant on a local level.)
Perhaps a little but I think mostly local, compare Burnham or Kahn for example, yes they're a different tier of mayor but they did not suffer the national dissatisfaction and largely neutered any 'green wave'.

I'd agree that nothing will change though, tweets from the inner circle already make it obvious that the bunker mentality remains and is likely to harden if anything, I fear we are in for three more years of not much progress now, one of the early 'cycling cities' however sketchy much of that early infrastructure was is going to be one of the worst in the UK by then.
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
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