Traffic lights giving cyclists a head start - Bristol

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Traffic lights giving cyclists a head start - Bristol

Post by [XAP]Bob »

prestavalve wrote: 15 Apr 2021, 4:05pm
XAPBob wrote: It's not that the roads are numerically unsafe, but that they *feel* unsafe, which means people don't cycle, so there are fewer cyclists so the roads *are* a less safe space than they could/should be.
More cyclists are the solution: I don't want to wait for the infrastructure to come along, that's all.
The problem is that the perception, and the actual ease of use, is important in getting more cyclists.

A disjointed mess of sub par farce-ilities is not going to attract new cyclists..
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Stevek76
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Re: Traffic lights giving cyclists a head start - Bristol

Post by Stevek76 »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 15 Apr 2021, 7:25pm Unfortunately his reviews didn't quite go nowhere. In both cases they left what Ferguson had put in place but froze it there. So we've had no expansion of the 20mph zones or the RPZs, both of which were originally planned to expand to cover more of the city, and no increase in the price of the residents' parking permits, thus no incentive on central residents to reduce car ownership.
Yes, freezing rpz fees is even being advertised as something they've 'delivered'!

I live just outside them in the Ashton area where apparently 80% wasn't sufficiently overwhelming support for extension. :roll:
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thirdcrank
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Re: Traffic lights giving cyclists a head start - Bristol

Post by thirdcrank »

When local politicians control things like this, there is a strong tendency to accommodate residents' parking, no matter what happens with on-street parking more generally. I don't think this is anything to do with motorists as such, just that residents have votes and angry residents use them. Motorists as such have much less influence over traffic management.
wjhall
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Re: Traffic lights giving cyclists a head start - Bristol

Post by wjhall »

Stevek76 wrote: 15 Apr 2021, 6:43pm ...

That Bristol is making such a fuss about them is a reflection of how useless Rees has been as mayor over the last 5 years on transport. He was elected on a manifesto that partly dog whistled to the motor vote ...
Mr Rees was parachuted in from America by OBV with an identity politics based campaign, roughly '...isn't it wonderful that someone like me can be elected...'. Given that it took him four years to screw up the courage to cancel his predecessor Mr Ferguson's speculative ventures in arenas and electricity companies we should probably be grateful that he has no policies or we should all be bankrupt. As it is he appears to be about to start a council speculation in office property.
Stevek76
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Re: Traffic lights giving cyclists a head start - Bristol

Post by Stevek76 »

To an extent, but there are ways of cranking up fees while maintaining support. Few people are going to complain about inflation linked rises for a start so for a financially stretched council to effectively loose themselves money by freezing fees is just silly.

Similarly ia significant minority of households in these areas have no car (there simply isn't the room for that) and similarly to be parking more than one is certainly taking more than one's 'fair share'. So increases can be focused on third and second cars initially and also more heavily differentiating on emissions and size/weight. The first car rates are also dirt cheap by national standards, £48pa for most cars, half for band B, free for <100g/km

Also this is a Labour mayor, he has political capital to burn in Bristol and his main rivals in these areas are the green party.

Unfortunately, like so many things, his attitude towards the RPSs has far more to do with his petty vendetta against anything Ferguson did or supported
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Stevek76
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Re: Traffic lights giving cyclists a head start - Bristol

Post by Stevek76 »

wjhall wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 2:36pm Given that it took him four years to screw up the courage to cancel his predecessor Mr Ferguson's speculative ventures in arenas
To replace it with basically giving the land to l&g, whilst still footing the £12m (or £20m?) decontamination bill and committing to renting an entire office block from them on the hopes that they can make the money back subletting most of it out, in a post covid world where central office space is suddenly looking like not such a great investment. I'd far rather have had the arena, it would have been built by now.

The energy company was a mess but the arena was a financially very low risk as stated in the kmpg report he commissioned to try to use as cover to ditch it.
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Bmblbzzz
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Re: Traffic lights giving cyclists a head start - Bristol

Post by Bmblbzzz »

wjhall wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 2:36pm
Stevek76 wrote: 15 Apr 2021, 6:43pm ...

That Bristol is making such a fuss about them is a reflection of how useless Rees has been as mayor over the last 5 years on transport. He was elected on a manifesto that partly dog whistled to the motor vote ...
Mr Rees was parachuted in from America by OBV ...
OBV?
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Traffic lights giving cyclists a head start - Bristol

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Stevek76 wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 3:01pm Also this is a Labour mayor, he has political capital to burn in Bristol and his main rivals in these areas are the green party.

Unfortunately, like so many things, his attitude towards the RPSs has far more to do with his petty vendetta against anything Ferguson did or supported
Partly the vendetta (it might help to remember that Ferguson started his political career in the Conservative Party before moving to the LibDems and then becoming an independent), but also it's Rees's particular style of Labour, which is a rather 1970s and 80s type of economics-first attitude.

Anyway, I'll stop there before this becomes a petty argument over local politics, rather than a discussion of local traffic.
wjhall
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Re: Traffic lights giving cyclists a head start - Bristol

Post by wjhall »

If the arena was low risk, then the entertainment industry should have been left to make its own arrangements. That the subsequent arrangements for the old engine shed site seem incompetent is another matter.

OBV I leave to everyone's own research. That everyone in Bristol does not know what it means is a little surprising.
atlas_shrugged
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Re: Traffic lights giving cyclists a head start - Bristol

Post by atlas_shrugged »

Talking to a fellow cyclist (and driver) in Cranebridge about these priority lights - he made a good point. Before the priority it would be a complete zoo with two steady cyclists side by side, then the impatient cyclist trying to overtake (at a junction), and then the car driver all setting off together. From the car drivers perspective having a prioritised light reduces the stress because the cycle fight has already taken place and the cyclists are on their way and out of the way. So for car drivers, and car driver point of view, these lights are better too.

I still think the fresh rainbow trout get the best deal because they get to cross (under) junctions at 23 mph in their own private lane.
Jdsk
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Re: Traffic lights giving cyclists a head start - Bristol

Post by Jdsk »

atlas_shrugged wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 9:03amTalking to a fellow cyclist (and driver) in Cranebridge about these priority lights - he made a good point. Before the priority it would be a complete zoo with two steady cyclists side by side, then the impatient cyclist trying to overtake (at a junction), and then the car driver all setting off together. From the car drivers perspective having a prioritised light reduces the stress because the cycle fight has already taken place and the cyclists are on their way and out of the way. So for car drivers, and car driver point of view, these lights are better too.
That would also apply to the L turn towards Magdalen Bridge in Oxford when it's busy.

Jonathan
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Traffic lights giving cyclists a head start - Bristol

Post by Bmblbzzz »

atlas_shrugged wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 9:03am Cranebridge
Crane Bridge in Salisbury? Nickname for Cambridge? Nickname for somewhere else? Some other real place? None of these? All of these?
atlas_shrugged
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Re: Traffic lights giving cyclists a head start - Bristol

Post by atlas_shrugged »

Sadly the city of Cambridge no longer exists. It has been blighted by greedy property developers, AND cranes. Lots of them.
MikeF
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Re: Traffic lights giving cyclists a head start - Bristol

Post by MikeF »

prestavalve wrote: 14 Apr 2021, 5:01pm

The best solution remains a world in which cyclists take the lane, I fail to understand why anyone should apologise for believing that. If you want to accept a world in which that is not possible for any but the most elite middle aged athlete, then crack on.
You are no doubt a confident and fast cyclist taking the lane. Have you tried taking the lane sticking to 6mph rather the 12mph as many less athletic or young cyclists would do? One thing about cycling with motor traffic is that the cyclist is always having to compete with that motor traffic and that's the biggest problem.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
Stevek76
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Re: Traffic lights giving cyclists a head start - Bristol

Post by Stevek76 »

wjhall wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 7:45pm If the arena was low risk, then the entertainment industry should have been left to make its own arrangements.
I'm simply referencing the KPMG vfm report for that. Low risk does not necessarily mean privately profitable and public returns are wider than direct money (else why publicly fund anything?)

Such things have always needed public impetus, as every other such venue in the country has done, in this case as there are few suitable central locations and they're all owned by the councilm and, in the case of the engine shed, is contaminated. No private developer was ever going to touch that with a barge pole without someone else cleaning it up whatever it is to be.

Swinging this faintly back on topic, the alternative filton site is highly car dependent (and taking its own £100m of publicly funded infrastructure) and the main route for a substantial part of the city's population would be up the cycling disaster zone that is Gloucester rd. A few advanced greens up there might help a little, but would remain fiddling around the edges on a road that really needs an overhaul.
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