Today programme and reg. numbers for us.

[Jdsk]

Thanks for that.

Jonathan

[Pete Owens]

Here we go:

Minister repeats there is no prospect of requiring cyclists to be licensed as ‘Mr Loophole’ lawyer Nick Freeman continues to push his petition

An official response which just generates yet more free publicity for the proponent (which of course was the entire purpose of the excercise in the first place) . He needs to be ignored - not countered or debated or treated with any seriosness whatsoever.

[Psamathe]

I've often wondered what on earth is the point of giving points to and "banning" an individual who doesn't engage with the established system in the first place... there's absolutely no deterant there whatsoever surely - or am I missing something?

Disqualification only seems to be effective with people who comply anyway. .....

I would assume these is a escalating system of penalties for repeat offenders. And once things get more towards criminal then your record starts impacting e.g. some visas, helping at your kids organised recreational activities (DBS checks), driving overseas, etc.

But even people who don't "engage" or "comply", their employers likely will which may be a bit of a hindrance. Local press would probably start publicising once penalties start going beyond regular "plead by post enclosing your cheque".

That said I am guessing as I've not ben there.

Ian

[thirdcrank]

The sentencing guidelines cover this. Before anybody is sentenced they have to be convicted and one of the biggest factors there is identification. In most cases of driving while disqualified, that means being caught driving. The fewer people doing the catching, the fewer will be caught. The incentive is there to drive off from collisions and to outrun the police. There are even fewer authorised to pursue and they are increasingly deployed on other duties needing advanced driving skills. And Department Y are on the case if anything goes wrong.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that all banned drivers ignore the ban. There must be some for whom it's a genuine punishment.

[ratherbeintobago]

In most cases of driving while disqualified, that means being caught driving. The fewer people doing the catching, the fewer will be caught.

This is the big problem, isn’t it?

[thirdcrank]

I've now been retired twenty-four years. Times have changed and I don't go for the rose-tinted specs, but it's hard to get across how traffic enforcement has changed over the years. There was a time when "ordinary" uniform patrol officers routinely dealt with almost all types of driving offences, except speeding. I don't use "ordinary" in any disparaging sense because I've never been in "Road Traffic" but I dealt with loads of traffic offences. The demands are different today and "traffic" is not a priority.

Identification of disqualified drivers has always been a problem. Technology is better now than ever but catching the driver at the wheel is still usually vital.

[Stevek76]

Needs resourcing and legislation really.

Much stricter consequences for driving without a license, e.g. car crushed (unless stolen) and also tagging (with spot checks) might an alternative to custodial sentences.

[thirdcrank]

Seizing cars is possible now, but you still have to catch them. Here's an example where sizing a posh car seems to have been an alternative to taking action for the driving offences.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... e-57387469

Seizing bangers is one thing. With a car like that, there must be a likelihood of a civil action to get it back.

[mattheus]

I've often wondered what on earth is the point of giving points to and "banning" an individual who doesn't engage with the established system in the first place... there's absolutely no deterant there whatsoever surely - or am I missing something?

Disqualification only seems to be effective with people who comply anyway. .....

I would assume these is a escalating system of penalties for repeat offenders. And once things get more towards criminal then your record starts impacting e.g. some visas, helping at your kids organised recreational activities (DBS checks), driving overseas, etc.

But even people who don't "engage" or "comply", their employers likely will which may be a bit of a hindrance. Local press would probably start publicising once penalties start going beyond regular "plead by post enclosing your cheque".

That said I am guessing as I've not ben there.

Ian

Sadly no such things happen, in general. You can find many examples of drivers offending WHILE BANNED, and getting trivial fines/sentences (and usually more points on their licence!!! )
It's very easy to get a job, while banned, that you drive to. I suspect plenty of home delivery agencies don't even check you out if you supply your own vehicle - not our problem mate!

[millimole]

There are even fewer authorised to pursue and they are increasingly deployed on other duties needing advanced driving skills.

I've a family member who is a fairly new Police officer, and cannot be given a date for them to attend a course allowing them to drive other than in accordance with their 'civilian' licence (ie drive to incidents quickly).
I'm being told that their force no longer has any qualified instructors. Apparently, theirs and neighbouring forces are having to cover jobs previously done by civilian workers with officers, because of the recent departure of a number of civilian staff.

[fastpedaller]

On the reg numbers 'tabbards' subject, and Mr Freeman, I'd like to offer my opinion (for little that it's worth) that the 'tv and print 'news' media)possibly don't agree (or indeed disagree) with it or any other stories they publish - It's just a story and a means of filling a few minutes of airtime for them. It may even be possible to present a 'script' to a newsreader stating "the World and human population was extinguished yesterday and we'd like to report that all is well" and for it to be read without them even noticing what they've said
Cynical moi?

[alexandersmith146]

I have a vague memory of there being a Government study being done on this subject.
Has anyone got a link to it? I've had a quick search but have yet to find it.
The findings (again, from memory) were there would be no discernible benefit and it would be very expensive to administer.

Perhaps Mr Freeman has forgotten it has already been considered, studied and abandoned?

Found it!

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... review.pdf

It's bad form to reply to your posts, please accept my apologies.

[ratherbeintobago]

Good work!

[xerxes]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... review.pdf

It's worth quoting the relevant section of that report -

G) Registration and licensing of cyclists
6.43 The issue of the registration and licensing of cyclists has been raised by some
respondents. The safety case for a testing/licensing system for cyclists is not as strong
as that for drivers since, by contrast with motor vehicles, bicycles involved in collisions
on the highway are far less likely to cause serious injury to other road users.
6.44 Furthermore, cycling has clear benefits for cyclists themselves, particularly in terms of
health, and for wider society, such as tackling congestion, reducing CO2 emissions
and improved air quality. The introduction of a registration and licensing system would
deter people from cycling and so significantly reduce these benefits, especially over
the short-term.
6.45 Accordingly, the Government has no plans to introduce a registration and licensing
regime for cyclists because the costs and complexity of introducing such a system
would significantly outweigh the benefits.

[pete75]

Apparently his petition got enough signatures to require a government response. Only just scraped over the 10,000 bar though with 10,498. Considering the man's fame in some quarters, his penchant for self publicity and his media profile it's not a brilliant result.

https://road.cc/content/news/loophole-p ... not-288699