Cycle camera submissions - Police up resourcing to deal ?

Farrina
Posts: 118
Joined: 26 Nov 2012, 8:15pm

Cycle camera submissions - Police up resourcing to deal ?

Post by Farrina »

Bit of a long shot this one, but as regards dash cam submissions to the Police, I vaguely recall reading somewhere a missive from an authority (HM Inspector of Constabulary?) to the effect that Police forces must up resource their capabilities to ensure that they are efficiently dealing with such submissions.

Having had cause to submit dash cam footage (well cycle cam to be more accurate) over sequential weekends - both inappropriate overtakes, I have discovered that Lancashire Constabulary (IMHO) are hopeless whereas Merseyside Police excellent (as well as my tormentor they actually "nipped" another motorist I was not complaining about!)

I think this is an good opportunity to write to the Lancashire Local Police and Crime Commissioner to hi-light Lancashires shortcomings. In this regard (to provide additional ammunition) I wonder if anyone is aware of any official publication referencing the "up resourcing" mentioned in my first paragraph?

I am not looking to pursue the index offence (now outside 14 day NIP anyway) but by contrasting their approach to Merseyside's to (try and) change their ethos surrounding vulnerable road users. Currently my experience is that if I provide Merseyside with valid footage they are robust in pursuing the offender whereas Lancashire, short of being smeared bloodedly all over the road, its a bit of a tick box mentality.

I appreciate I will not change the world, but from frequent small steps eventually comes big change.

Cheers
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Cycle camera submissions - Police up resourcing to deal ?

Post by Jdsk »

Farrina wrote: 14 Jun 2021, 9:08amI think this is an good opportunity to write to the Lancashire Local Police and Crime Commissioner to hi-light Lancashires shortcomings.
How about changing that slightly to something like discussing their current approach and how you think that it could be improved?

Jonathan

PS: The variation between police forces is interesting, and IMHO a national minimum approach is an achievable goal.
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Cycle camera submissions - Police up resourcing to deal ?

Post by thirdcrank »

Here's something I prepared earlier

viewtopic.php?p=1599804#p1599804
ChrisButch
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Joined: 24 Feb 2009, 12:10pm

Re: Cycle camera submissions - Police up resourcing to deal ?

Post by ChrisButch »

It might be worth contacting Andy Cox (formerly of the Met, and an eloquent advocate for cycling safety), who I believe is now national lead on road accident policing for the NPCC.
Farrina
Posts: 118
Joined: 26 Nov 2012, 8:15pm

Re: Cycle camera submissions - Police up resourcing to deal ?

Post by Farrina »

Thanks to all for the helpful guidance and suggestions - I shall of course be tactful and non aggressive in any approach I make (i.e. a tone of sorrow/disappointment, rather than frustration/rage - no point getting peoples "backs up" unnecessarily!)

Upon reflection I think, as a first step, I might just write to the Chief Constable of Lancashire and ask him for a written copy of his force's policy towards the submission/disposal of video evidence in respect of potential road traffic offences and whether they have adopted "Operation Snap" - I suspect not!

My ultimate goal will be to submit a calm full comparison (including video footage) for both incidents of my personal experience of the approach of the respective (adjoining) forces addressed to the Lancashire Police and Crime Commissioner/Chief Constable and invite their comments.

I wonder if it is worth approaching Andy Cox to see if he can suggest a best approach (he may, so to speak, know which buttons to press) or whether he might be wary of becoming stuck "in the middle" ?

Cheers
Jdsk
Posts: 24488
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Cycle camera submissions - Police up resourcing to deal ?

Post by Jdsk »

Go for it.

And involving Cox sounds like a great idea.

And please let us know how it pans out.

Jonathan
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Cycle camera submissions - Police up resourcing to deal ?

Post by thirdcrank »

If you intend writing to your local police force to ask about policy then - at the risk of being even more repetitive than usual - I'd urge you to write to the police and crime commissioner (PCC) who has the ultimate word on policy. (eg The PCC hires and fires the chief constable.)

The Lancashire PCC is one Andrew Snowden about whom I know nothing but he says
As Police and Crime Commissioner my role is to act as your voice in policing within Lancashire.
https://www.lancashire-pcc.gov.uk/

I can't help noting that that page has a section inviting people to KEEP UP TO DATE on social media, directly below the The Police and Crime Plan 2016 - 2020 or 2021 if you go by the cover of the document. Looking on the bright side, that suggests that the next pyatiletka is still being prepared so now may be a good time to bend his lug.

An opening line might be "How do you intend to meet the recommendations of the police inspectorate report Roads Policing: Not optional. An inspection of roads policing in England and Wales At least you will then be sure it's been brought to his attention.

Chief officers now deal with operational matters.
=============================================================================
Having said I knew nothing about Andrew Snowden, I've looked him up. He was the successful Tory party candidate in the recent PCC election. Here's his manifesto

https://www.lancashireconservatives.co.uk/LancsPCC

No obvious mention of traffic policing in his plans. To be fair to him, if you scroll down there's a survey where he was canvassing views on priorities and that may form some sort of basis for his plans now.
Farrina
Posts: 118
Joined: 26 Nov 2012, 8:15pm

Re: Cycle camera submissions - Police up resourcing to deal ?

Post by Farrina »

Thirdcrank,

Thanks for your further input and analysis.

I want to identify what Lancashire's policy was at the time I submitted my video complaint, so I have written to the Chief Constable requesting a copy of their policy towards the review/disposal of video evidence submitted in respect of potential road traffic offences. Have also queried whether his force fully participates in “Operation Snap”.

It will be interesting to see if they followed their own policy (and indeed whether they actually have a detailed policy, beyond "aspirations") Ultimately it is my plan to present my comparison of Merseyside/Lancashire handling of my respective complaints to the PCC, copied to the Chief Constable and invite their comments.

I am vaguely hopeful that if I can show that Merseyside are "streets ahead" in their response they may actually do something original and actually talk to Merseyside.
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Cycle camera submissions - Police up resourcing to deal ?

Post by thirdcrank »

The big difference AIUI is that PCCs are answerable to the electorate - no laughing at the back, please - and chief constables really are answerable to their PCC on policy matters. It's a fine line, in that IIRC the Inspectorate's recommendation about Operation Snap was directed to CCs, but it's the PCCs who hold the purse strings and the CCs employment contracts.
ratherbeintobago
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Joined: 5 Dec 2010, 6:31pm

Re: Cycle camera submissions - Police up resourcing to deal ?

Post by ratherbeintobago »

ChrisButch wrote: 14 Jun 2021, 12:11pm It might be worth contacting Andy Cox (formerly of the Met, and an eloquent advocate for cycling safety), who I believe is now national lead on road accident policing for the NPCC.
He's on Twitter and has been involved in drawing up some national standards for this.

Personally, I don't think informing the person submitting whether there is a NIP or not is an unreasonable expectation. GMP don't do this by all accounts.
thirdcrank wrote: 17 Jun 2021, 10:55am The big difference AIUI is that PCCs are answerable to the electorate - no laughing at the back, please - and chief constables really are answerable to their PCC on policy matters. It's a fine line, in that IIRC the Inspectorate's recommendation about Operation Snap was directed to CCs, but it's the PCCs who hold the purse strings and the CCs employment contracts.
Of course, our PCC powers are rolled into the Mayor's office and while Burnham may have done many good things, a police force that's in special measures isn't one of them.
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Cycle camera submissions - Police up resourcing to deal ?

Post by thirdcrank »

I don't think informing the person submitting whether there is a NIP or not is an unreasonable expectation.
I don't see how it adds much, except for just more administrative tail wagging a shrinking dog. Perhaps I've missed something.
ratherbeintobago
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Joined: 5 Dec 2010, 6:31pm

Re: Cycle camera submissions - Police up resourcing to deal ?

Post by ratherbeintobago »

Surely people are more likely to continue submitting footage if they know it makes a difference?

The detail isn't necessary, just an automatic message saying NIP/no NIP.
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Cycle camera submissions - Police up resourcing to deal ?

Post by thirdcrank »

First off, an NIP isn't necessary for every sort of offence, although it is for offences that might usually be involved in a close pass such as due care or inconsiderate driving. Then, it's only a safeguard for the suspect in that they get a warning that they may be prosecuted so they can get their facts together. It's not any sort of guarantee of action being taken, although the lack of an NIP when needed would prevent a prosecution. I suppose I'm influenced by memories of the time when an NIP was necessary even after an accident (which is now an exception.) In those days preparing and sending NIPs was a thriving industry.

On the matter of encouraging people to submit footage, I'd have thought that the thing there would be knowing that real action had been taken. If there are people whose expectations are satisfied with the service of an NIP, it sounds like the perfect fob off.
ratherbeintobago
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Joined: 5 Dec 2010, 6:31pm

Re: Cycle camera submissions - Police up resourcing to deal ?

Post by ratherbeintobago »

That's probably valid, but I don't know whether that could be as easily automated.

You will be amazed to learn there is a spectrum of views on this on Twitter.
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