Radio show on Hi-Vis.

[kylecycler]

(Boris Johnson) said plans for a named police officer for every neighbourhood would ensure that victims of crime could speak to someone who understood the local area.

"What you need is somebody who understands what's going on in your neighbourhood, who understands who the likely miscreants are, who understands whether the thing you are reporting - the crime that you are experiencing - is a one-off or part of a trend," he said.

Former Home Secretary, Charles Clarke came up with the named officer thing although he used the term "Bobby" but the rest of what he said made it clear he meant PCSO. There are people with that type of knowledge but IME they are rare.

I'll be honest, I didn't know the distinction either (although maybe I've got an excuse, being Scottish and apparently PCSOs are only in England and Wales). Don't know the Scottish equivalent, if there is one, either, mind you.

Loosely related: I got checked by a police officer I know for referring to a police officer as a Bobby. His wife, who was sitting next to him, wasn't having it, though - she said, "He was a Piglet when I first met him and he's a Pig now."

[Oldjohnw]

Any policeman who objects to the term “Bobby” is short on understanding of the history of the police force.

[thirdcrank]

Bobby seems normal to me, which is why I thought Clarke was being a bit sharp using the expression in relation to PCSOs.

Pre-pandemic, I did a short presentation at the primary school where I volunteer to help with reading in normal times. Afterwards, the class teacher - late 30s - commented it was an old-fashioned expression. Thinking back, it's one I used regularly when administering juvenile cautions. I used to try to get them to think about the affect of their actions on those involved: themselves; parents; any complainant etc. I often ended with the effect on me "I hope this will help you think first in future to help keep out of trouble, but if you're thinking 'I'll show him' it won't hurt me: I have a Bobby's job."

[Bonefishblues]

BRING BACK THE STOCKS, THAT'S WHAT I SAY!!! (semi-seriously)

The panic buying thread is over there

[kylecycler]

Any policeman who objects to the term “Bobby” is short on understanding of the history of the police force.

That particular police officer is short on understanding of lots of stuff - his wife was only half kidding...

[kylecycler]

BRING BACK THE STOCKS, THAT'S WHAT I SAY!!! (semi-seriously)

The panic buying thread is over there

That reminds me - toilet paper!

[drossall]

I haven't had time to listen to the programme yet. I'll aim to do so. However, I have always thought that the limitations of hi-vis, in particular in a cycling context, could be summed up in two words.

The first of those words is high. That is inherently a relative term. High for a building is not the same thing as high for an aeroplane. More relevant to our context, my building can cease to be high because a couple of fellows in Abu Dhabi and Beijing take it into their heads to build something taller. My building hasn't changed at all, but suddenly doesn't seem so high.

We used to be told to wear light-coloured clothing. After a while, that wasn't enough and we needed hi-vis, and reflectives at night. Now, for night, I've got one of these amazing space-age things that makes you stand out, ghost-like, from your surroundings in the slightest illumination. But already jackets with built-in lighting are emerging. Today's hi-vis is tomorrow's black, and it only remains hi-vis if someone else isn't wearing something hi-er.

The second problem word is visibility. That's a very passive word. It means only that I am available to be seen, if someone is looking. It's like employability, which is a very different thing from getting a job, and is considerably affected by the number of other employable people in my field. My aim is not to be visible; it's to be seen, and that, as any experienced rider knows, can involve road positioning and riding style as much as lights and clothing.

[Jdsk]

BRING BACK THE STOCKS, THAT'S WHAT I SAY!!! (semi-seriously)

Discover what works and what doesn't. Do the former. Don't do the latter. (Totally seriously.)

Jonathan

[thirdcrank]

It's how you define "works." For party politicians, works = what's popular.

[Jdsk]

This is why enlightenment works. (!)

Evidence about anything only means anything if the outcomes are well described. In crime policy there are multiple outcomes to pick from. An evidence-based approach will help to check if we're taking about the same outcomes, and will expose when politicians are only talking about popular appeal rather than deterrence of the offender, reduced reoffending, cost of implementation, protection of society, damage to offenders' families, vengeance etc etc.

Jonathan

[Oldjohnw]

In criminology we look at reduced reoffending. That is the best thing that can happen in terms of public safety. If a criminal goes straight we all benefit. There is a huge mass of unused talent behind the prison gate. Of course the public need to be reassured that they are safer as a consequence of public policy and victims need to know that their needs have been take into account.

Unfortunately and regrettably, much of the press and many politicians seem to want to tell us that things are worse than they really are, unless you are a criminal in which they tell us that they have never had it so good.

I spent a lot of time during the Labour government when Straw was in charge trying to persuade them to set policy with an evidence base and not in response to the Daily Mail. I was completely unsuccessful.

I was delighted to be asked by the prospective Tory team to advise them. I had rather more success then with Ken Clarke and Crispin Blunt. Their tenure was all too brief because Cameron got twitchy when the press thought ha had gone soft.

[Mike Sales]

I haven't had time to listen to the programme yet. I'll aim to do so. However, I have always thought that the limitations of hi-vis, in particular in a cycling context, could be summed up in two words.

The programme was not about how visible hiviz is, or whether that might cut down RTCs.
It was about the social meaning of hiviz.
I think that the meaning is context dependent.
It can be a badge of shame or of authority, depending.
Our concern is what it means when worn by a cyclist.
For another thread I searched for photos of Johnson cycling in hiviz. I found none.

[Audax67]

Any policeman who objects to the term “Bobby” is short on understanding of the history of the police force.

In Norn Iron we always called them peelers. Understanding it also required a minim of learning - no connection with Gypsy Rose.

[Oldjohnw]

Any policeman who objects to the term “Bobby” is short on understanding of the history of the police force.

In Norn Iron we always called them peelers. Understanding it also required a minim of learning - no connection with Gypsy Rose.

I know the term, obviously, but have never heard in use. Interesting.

[Jules59]

I'm in a volunteer group that works with the Council to keep Rights of Way open. We clear paths, and build bridges and styles. Its been run for many years, the average age is well into the 60s and we have a green fleece "uniform" - not even Hi-Viz
Its funny how so many people initially think we must be criminals doing community service rather than individuals concerned for our environment. I do put them straight.