Radio show on Hi-Vis.

Labrat
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Re: Radio show on Hi-Vis.

Post by Labrat »

Jdsk wrote: 5 Aug 2021, 8:30pm Please let's stick to discussing the evidence and our individual choices.

Individual choices? See - It’s all the same nonsense isn’t it? Employers shouldn’t demand employees are vaccinated, nightclubs shouldn’t demand vaccine passports, people shouldn’t be forced to wear masks on trains.
Vorpal
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Re: Radio show on Hi-Vis.

Post by Vorpal »

Topic has been pruned. Please avoid insults, ad hominem attacks, and the helmet debate.

The bits about helmets have been moved to viewtopic.php?f=41&t=147162
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Nigel
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Re: Radio show on Hi-Vis.

Post by Nigel »

Labrat wrote: 5 Aug 2021, 8:37pm
Jdsk wrote: 5 Aug 2021, 8:30pm Please let's stick to discussing the evidence and our individual choices.

Individual choices? See - It’s all the same nonsense isn’t it? Employers shouldn’t demand employees are vaccinated, nightclubs shouldn’t demand vaccine passports, people shouldn’t be forced to wear masks on trains.
Labrat seem to be confused between interventions primarily for the benefit of an individual, and interventions which primarily benefit others in society. If you don't get those matters straight, you're arguing that oranges don't taste like apples.

HiViz, Helmets, etc.. fall into the first group. As does taking a Neurofen for a headache.
Vaccination is in the second group, has some benefits for individual, but its primarily about benefitting others in society.
Oldjohnw
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Re: Radio show on Hi-Vis.

Post by Oldjohnw »

I may agree broadly - or not, as the case may be - with Labrat’s points but I suggest any argument which depends on describing those with different views as “loons”, “nutters” or “brigade” to make a point is essentially rather weak and unlikely to win friends or influence people.
John
Labrat
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Re: Radio show on Hi-Vis.

Post by Labrat »

Oldjohnw wrote: 6 Aug 2021, 2:06pm I may agree broadly - or not, as the case may be - with Labrat’s points but I suggest any argument which depends on describing those with different views as “loons”, “nutters” or “brigade” to make a point is essentially rather weak and unlikely to win friends or influence people.
I’m more than happy to regard people who vehemently oppose mask-wearing or vaccination in the face of Covid (as with those who opposed MMR vaccination, and no doubt in the past with smallpox vaccination & BCG) as unscientific cranks, loons and nutters

I’m just as happy to publicly denounce those who refuse to wear seatbelts in cars or motorbike helmets as cranks, loons and nutters as well - despite those being introduced for individual rather than community benefit.
Oldjohnw
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Re: Radio show on Hi-Vis.

Post by Oldjohnw »

Labrat wrote: 6 Aug 2021, 3:21pm
Oldjohnw wrote: 6 Aug 2021, 2:06pm I may agree broadly - or not, as the case may be - with Labrat’s points but I suggest any argument which depends on describing those with different views as “loons”, “nutters” or “brigade” to make a point is essentially rather weak and unlikely to win friends or influence people.
I’m more than happy to regard people who vehemently oppose mask-wearing or vaccination in the face of Covid (as with those who opposed MMR vaccination, and no doubt in the past with smallpox vaccination & BCG) as unscientific cranks, loons and nutters

I’m just as happy to publicly denounce those who refuse to wear seatbelts in cars or motorbike helmets as cranks, loons and nutters as well - despite those being introduced for individual rather than community benefit.
Quite charming. But entirely your privilege.

Some are, as I hope you might recognise, nervous, uncertain, ill-informed and sadly but seriously mislead.
John
Stevek76
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Re: Radio show on Hi-Vis.

Post by Stevek76 »

Given the above it would only be logically consistent for labrat to think pedestrians not decked out in high vis and protective gear to be loons.

Somehow though I get the impression that isn't the case...
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Labrat
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Re: Radio show on Hi-Vis.

Post by Labrat »

Stevek76 wrote: 6 Aug 2021, 5:06pm Given the above it would only be logically consistent for labrat to think pedestrians not decked out in high vis and protective gear to be loons.

Somehow though I get the impression that isn't the case...
I’d certainly thoroughly recommend pedestrians walking in the road wearing in poor visibility or at dawn/dusk/wearing high visibility clothing. In fact I reckon anyone deliberately choosing not to wear it whilst walking in the road, when they had the choice available, or choosing to walk in the road rather than on a pavement, would be an idiot.
Just as I would also say anyone not wearing a seatbelt in their car or driving their car with the lights off at night would also be an idiot.
Stevek76
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Re: Radio show on Hi-Vis.

Post by Stevek76 »

So that's everyone then? After all, almost every walking trip has to go into the road at some point.

And of course there are the ~40 pedestrians killed every year by motor vehicles on the pavement...


Can't say I've ever seen a pedestrian wearing high vis & protective equipment that wasn't already wearing it for another reason.
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Jdsk
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Re: Radio show on Hi-Vis.

Post by Jdsk »

We sometimes put on high visbility bandoliers when walking on roads at night. And I wear a head torch.

Jonathan
Oldjohnw
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Re: Radio show on Hi-Vis.

Post by Oldjohnw »

I live in the country and early morning dog walkers often can be seen wearing hi-vis tabards. Their dogs, too
John
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kylecycler
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Re: Radio show on Hi-Vis.

Post by kylecycler »

Oldjohnw wrote: 6 Aug 2021, 8:03pm I live in the country and early morning dog walkers often can be seen wearing hi-vis tabards. Their dogs, too
How do the dogs... Oh right, their owners put them on... for... them... :oops:
Jdsk
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Re: Radio show on Hi-Vis.

Post by Jdsk »

kylecycler wrote: 6 Aug 2021, 8:16pm
Oldjohnw wrote: 6 Aug 2021, 8:03pm I live in the country and early morning dog walkers often can be seen wearing hi-vis tabards. Their dogs, too
How do the dogs... Oh right, their owners put them on... for... them...
It took me two goes... but I was puzzled about how the wakers wore the dogs.

: - )

Jonathan
drossall
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Re: Radio show on Hi-Vis.

Post by drossall »

Labrat wrote: 6 Aug 2021, 6:58pmI’d certainly thoroughly recommend pedestrians walking in the road wearing in poor visibility or at dawn/dusk/wearing high visibility clothing.
I'd recommend it too. But the issue is that hi-vis,and lights, were introduced to provide extra visibility. But what happens in reality is that the victims become idiots for not using it, and the standards expected of them go up. Meantime, it's quite natural that drivers don't see pedestrians (or cyclists) who aren't using it. So expectations of drivers go down. It doesn't seem to provide extra visibility; rather, it lowers the standards of observation required.

If it's providing extra visibility, then you'd expect drivers who hit pedestrians using it to incur extra fines, because of the extra culpability. That, roughly, is why the CTC opposed compulsory rear lights for cyclists around the end of WWII. And they were right - now, if a cyclist without a rear light is hit, the fault lies mostly with the cyclist, so the rear lights are not, as was claimed, providing extra visibility. But you should still use a rear light, obviously.
thirdcrank
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Re: Radio show on Hi-Vis.

Post by thirdcrank »

I wonder what the forthcoming Highway Code says about this.
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