"You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

atoz
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Re:

Post by atoz »

millimole wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 2:30pm Although this has drifted into the usual towpath discussion I'll put my pennyworth in.
I'm a volunteer for The Canal and River Trust (CRT) so what I say is slightly coloured by that.
CRT are damned whatever they do with the towpaths. If they improve them (and they get grants to do so) to enable disabled access - which also helps cyclists - they are accused (by boaters and walkers) of creating 'bicycle motorways' for cyclists to speed along. Leave the towpath as a muddy / neglected track and the disabled lobby are on their backs and other lobby groups want to know where 'all the money is being spent'.
In my volunteering I often feel its a circle of every group hating every other group (boaters, walkers, cyclists, anglers, dog walkers, joggers, photographers, etc etc).

Towpaths are fine for cyclists, generally, but they are not suitable for fast progress, and anyone not seeing this needs to take a dog and a couple of toddlers for a stroll along their local towpath.

We (the English) seem to have lost the sense of give-and-take and replaced it with an attitude of 'I'm the only one who matters' (generalisation accepted)
To clarify the last thing I do on canals is go fast, far from it. For one thing you'd end up the wrong side of a lock!

This particular part of the canal seems a pinch point now. It's simply not worth the hassle riding on it now. Back to the busy main road then ..
Oldjohnw
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Re:

Post by Oldjohnw »

millimole wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 2:30pm Although this has drifted into the usual towpath discussion I'll put my pennyworth in.
I'm a volunteer for The Canal and River Trust (CRT) so what I say is slightly coloured by that.
CRT are damned whatever they do with the towpaths. If they improve them (and they get grants to do so) to enable disabled access - which also helps cyclists - they are accused (by boaters and walkers) of creating 'bicycle motorways' for cyclists to speed along. Leave the towpath as a muddy / neglected track and the disabled lobby are on their backs and other lobby groups want to know where 'all the money is being spent'.
In my volunteering I often feel its a circle of every group hating every other group (boaters, walkers, cyclists, anglers, dog walkers, joggers, photographers, etc etc).

Towpaths are fine for cyclists, generally, but they are not suitable for fast progress, and anyone not seeing this needs to take a dog and a couple of toddlers for a stroll along their local towpath.

We (the English) seem to have lost the sense of give-and-take and replaced it with an attitude of 'I'm the only one who matters' (generalisation accepted)
I can’t disagree with any of the above. Thanks for your perspective.
John
Tiggertoo
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by Tiggertoo »

We (the English) seem to have lost the sense of give-and-take and replaced it with an attitude of 'I'm the only one who matters' (generalisation accepted)
Overcrowding will do that. Plus the belief that we as people mean less and less to those who are charged with making decisions affecting our daily lives.
Zulu Eleven
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Re:

Post by Zulu Eleven »

millimole wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 2:30pm
Towpaths are fine for cyclists, generally, but they are not suitable for fast progress, and anyone not seeing this needs to take a dog and a couple of toddlers for a stroll along their local towpath.

This, to me, is the key issue

however, regrettably, we have seen several cities and large towns, very much backed by Sustrans, adopt the canal and river network into urban commuting/utility cycle networks rather than retain them as leisure routes. The results being inevitable,
Richard Fairhurst
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Re:

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

millimole wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 2:30pm CRT are damned whatever they do with the towpaths. If they improve them (and they get grants to do so) to enable disabled access - which also helps cyclists - they are accused (by boaters and walkers) of creating 'bicycle motorways' for cyclists to speed along. Leave the towpath as a muddy / neglected track and the disabled lobby are on their backs and other lobby groups want to know where 'all the money is being spent'.
In my volunteering I often feel its a circle of every group hating every other group (boaters, walkers, cyclists, anglers, dog walkers, joggers, photographers, etc etc).

Towpaths are fine for cyclists, generally, but they are not suitable for fast progress, and anyone not seeing this needs to take a dog and a couple of toddlers for a stroll along their local towpath.

We (the English) seem to have lost the sense of give-and-take and replaced it with an attitude of 'I'm the only one who matters' (generalisation accepted)
Very good post.

FWIW I was on the latest Waterways World podcast talking about shared use and conflict on towpaths (I used to edit WW and still contribute to it). I doubt I said anything that would be news to people on this forum but in case you fancy a listen: https://waterwaysworld.com/community/podcast
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Jdsk
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Re:

Post by Jdsk »

millimole wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 2:30pmI'm a volunteer for The Canal and River Trust (CRT) so what I say is slightly coloured by that.
CRT are damned whatever they do with the towpaths.
Thank you for volunteering;

I can imagine that it feels like that.

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by Jdsk »

millimole wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 2:30pmWe (the English) seem to have lost the sense of give-and-take and replaced it with an attitude of 'I'm the only one who matters' (generalisation accepted)
Tiggertoo wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 5:33pm Overcrowding will do that. Plus the belief that we as people mean less and less to those who are charged with making decisions affecting our daily lives.
How would you convince a sceptic that this is a change in the behaviour of other people and not in the observer?

Thanks

Jonathan
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Cowsham
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by Cowsham »

About 3 weeks ago we were on the Leeds Liverpool on a narrowboat -- everyone we met was courteous except one owl boy that was fishing ( what sort o fish is worth catching in that water ? ) from his back garden on the opposite side from the towpath. We were over as far as we'd dare ( it's shallow at the sides ) to the towpath side and at lowest speed but he still said -- " I'm I invisible or what" as we went by. He did look like the sort of owl boy that scowled at everyone though. :lol:
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cycle tramp
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by cycle tramp »

simonineaston wrote: 25 Jul 2021, 11:40pm Like I say, growing population. Cramming them in every which way, and with raised expectations of what's theirs and reduced resources to look after their environment - in this case, the tow-path. Don't worry too much though, as nature has a cunning plan up her sleeve...
...not that cunning... theres been a tragic death of a ten year old in Canada from the bubonic plague, and in China a new case of bird/people flu has been found together with a possible deadly virus carried by ticks.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Re:

Post by thirdcrank »

Zulu Eleven wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 7:43pm
millimole wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 2:30pm
Towpaths are fine for cyclists, generally, but they are not suitable for fast progress, and anyone not seeing this needs to take a dog and a couple of toddlers for a stroll along their local towpath.

This, to me, is the key issue

however, regrettably, we have seen several cities and large towns, very much backed by Sustrans, adopt the canal and river network into urban commuting/utility cycle networks rather than retain them as leisure routes. The results being inevitable,
I think Zulu Eleven is correct here - pretty much what I was trying to say earlier. If riders unfamiliar with an area decide to use an officially signed National Cycle Route, then they have no reason to expect a linear park. It's like all the other farcilities motivated only by the desire to get cyclists out of the road. You don't need to be bright to see that cyclists, anglers, and pedestrians won't always mix well on a narrow route like a canal tow path, but then you don't need to be bright to plan for cyclists.
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Cowsham
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Re: Re:

Post by Cowsham »

Jdsk wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 10:23pm
millimole wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 2:30pmI'm a volunteer for The Canal and River Trust (CRT) so what I say is slightly coloured by that.
CRT are damned whatever they do with the towpaths.
Thank you for volunteering;

I can imagine that it feels like that.

Jonathan
+1 ( but is there anything you can do about swing bridge 199 L&L ? Only joking.)
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Jules59
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by Jules59 »

In support of the CRT I'd like to say how nice the towpath is on the Leeds & Liverpool around Skipton.
We decided to go from Gargrave to Skipton along the canal as the bridge at Broughton that we had intended to use on our loop (Skipton-Applertreewick- Grassington-Arncliffe-Malham-Gargrave) was closed to all traffic inc pedestrians (discovered when we got there :D ) and I didnt fancy the A59.

Slowing right down and stopping when necessary is not difficult and I find people appreciate a bell, as they dont have eyes in the back of the heads, and it alerts their dogs & children too.
Darkman
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by Darkman »

Didn't happen on a towpath, but I was coming up behind two people walking along a narrow road with a dog (off-lead) a few months back. I pinged the bell to make them aware. Bloke starts rifling through his pockets as I draw close, seemingly paying not a jot of attention to me. :(

I pass him, slowly, and he leaps about three foot in the air, completely unaware that I was even there.

Turns out, he thought the "ping" was his phone, hence his frenzied pocket search. :roll:

Not sure if society is doomed by social media, or I need a new bell.
Tiggertoo
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by Tiggertoo »

Not sure if society is doomed by social media,
Yup!
On a similar note, I often ride on a local hike/bike trail and just about every walker/runner has ear buds and or have eyes glued to their phones, so calling out or ringing a bell has no effect, they just can't hear what's coming up behind them.
Tiberius
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by Tiberius »

Tiggertoo wrote: 28 Jul 2021, 4:46pm On a similar note, I often ride on a local hike/bike trail and just about every walker/runner has ear buds and or have eyes glued to their phones, so calling out or ringing a bell has no effect, they just can't hear what's coming up behind them.
Not just pedestrians

Just the other day I saw a bloke riding a bike with a full sized set of headphones on his bonce. This wasn't on a tow path, it was in the middle of town which is currently mad and thick with summer traffic.

It's just how 'people' are now, it's what we've become.
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