"You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

atoz
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"You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by atoz »

Had this increasingly on a local towpath. Basically if you don't get to the bell in time, that's what you get, sometimes at volume. This is on a towpath that is quite narrow where it's not wise to move your hands on the bars too much. There is a new residential development at this point, upmarket flats and such. I get the feeling that cyclists are not liked by the new residents.

You also get the retort that "pedestrians have priority" if you dare to challenge. To be sure that is true. Doesn't stop people being polite though. I wouldn't like to think a child or a nervous beginner cyclist having to deal with this..
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simonineaston
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by simonineaston »

I think that like everywhere else, canals & their towpaths are getting more and more crowded... more and more share used, with all the friction that entails.
On the plus side, I saw a 60'-ish narrowboat y'day on the Kennet & Avon full of 20 year-old blokes, busy drinking and having a good time - and guess what? They were polite, careful, considerate and well-behaved... I know!! I nearly fell off my bicycle!!
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Jdsk
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by Jdsk »

I don't understand what you're describing.

Are some pedestrians saying this sarcastically because they think that you've got too close to them?

Thanks

Jonathan
atoz
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by atoz »

Jdsk wrote: 25 Jul 2021, 7:54pm I don't understand what you're describing.

Are some pedestrians saying this sarcastically because they think that you've got too close to them?

Thanks

Jonathan
Exactly, but there's more to it. This part of the canal has new housing next to it, effectively gentrified. There was no issue before this new development. You also get hassle if you don't have a bell or they don't think you use it enough (I do). Ironically some of the people who go on about bells are imho less likely to hear them due to their age, although by no means all. I've used this towpath for over 25 years without issues until the last couple of years. I believe part of the problem are the signs put up by the council and Canal River Trust which emphasise using a bell and of course pointing out that pedestrians have priority (I have no problem with this at all). The shared use status seems to be forgotten. I think it's a case for some people that to quote Orwell, that all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

As far as being too close, if you were further out, you would end up having a swim. This is what happens when housing next to canals goes through the planning process without adequate scrutiny. The Canal and River Trust are in my opinion at least partly to blame
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simonineaston
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by simonineaston »

Like I say, growing population. Cramming them in every which way, and with raised expectations of what's theirs and reduced resources to look after their environment - in this case, the tow-path. Don't worry too much though, as nature has a cunning plan up her sleeve...
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Ontherivet77
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by Ontherivet77 »

A simple "on your right" or "on your left" warning would suffice if you cannot move your hands for the bell. I have mine positioned so I don't have to move my hand at all.
Tiberius
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by Tiberius »

Two weeks ago I spent a very pleasant day out with my Grandson. walking along some canal towpaths in West Yorkshire.

Numerous cyclist were using the paths and we regularly made way for them, standing well back to let them through. Not one, NOT ONE, of those cyclists said 'Thank you' or even acknowledged that we had made way for them. Pig ignorant the lot of them.

To add. I'm a keen cyclist and was born in West Yorkshire - Fortunately I no longer live there.
Ontherivet77
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by Ontherivet77 »

Tiberius wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 8:59am Two weeks ago I spent a very pleasant day out with my Grandson. walking along some canal towpaths in West Yorkshire.

Numerous cyclist were using the paths and we regularly made way for them, standing well back to let them through. Not one, NOT ONE, of those cyclists said 'Thank you' or even acknowledged that we had made way for them. Pig ignorant the lot of them.

To add. I'm a keen cyclist and was born in West Yorkshire - Fortunately I no longer live there.
Although I've not experienced that level of ignorance from cyclists, walking the dog up the canal tow path has become a chore due to the sheer number of cyclists wanting to pass and interrupting a pleasant stroll. Rarely, you do get an idiot speeding down the tow path and I'm always tempted to shoulder him into the canal but then my better nature takes over.
Bmblbzzz
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Ontherivet77 wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 8:44am A simple "on your right" or "on your left" warning would suffice if you cannot move your hands for the bell. I have mine positioned so I don't have to move my hand at all.
I'd add something like "I'm passing on your right". Just "on your right" is liable to misinterpretation from those who are not used to it (which is most people). Does it mean "there's something on your right" (and what sort of thing?) or does it mean "move to your right" (to avoid the something)? Does it actually mean your (the hearer's) right or the speaker's right, and are these the same thing (this is before we get into the problem of right/left confusion)? Importantly, what is the hearer supposed to do with this "on your right" information?

For simply getting attention, a loud clicky freewheel (if you have one) works surprisingly well and is a sound that most people can easily interpret as "cyclist". Otherwise, a decent bell or an "excuse me" and leave it to the walkers to decide whether to go left or right – but be already slowing down before you call or ring, so it's clear you're giving way to them not forcing your way through.
Jdsk
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by Jdsk »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 10:17amOtherwise, a decent bell or an "excuse me" and leave it to the walkers to decide whether to go left or right – but be already slowing down before you call or ring, so it's clear you're giving way to them not forcing your way through.
Yes.

We often ride on towpaths. I prefer to call, my wife prefers a bell, but either way we seem to avoid both collisions and confrontations.

Jonathan
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Traction_man
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by Traction_man »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 10:17am a decent bell or an "excuse me" and leave it to the walkers to decide whether to go left or right – but be already slowing down before you call or ring, so it's clear you're giving way to them not forcing your way through.
+1 -- yes, a single clear loudish ring at a distance, so it does not sound aggressive but is audible, and a softer one again, rung a bit closer to those on the path, plus a friendly 'Morning' (or 'afternoon'/ 'evening') as I pass, and certainly a 'thank you' (or 'cheers'!) if walkers have stepped over to one side to allow me to pass by -- that way hopefully harmony reigns...

cheers,

Keith
Ontherivet77
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by Ontherivet77 »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 10:17am
Ontherivet77 wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 8:44am A simple "on your right" or "on your left" warning would suffice if you cannot move your hands for the bell. I have mine positioned so I don't have to move my hand at all.
I'd add something like "I'm passing on your right". Just "on your right" is liable to misinterpretation from those who are not used to it (which is most people). Does it mean "there's something on your right" (and what sort of thing?) or does it mean "move to your right" (to avoid the something)? Does it actually mean your (the hearer's) right or the speaker's right, and are these the same thing (this is before we get into the problem of right/left confusion)? Importantly, what is the hearer supposed to do with this "on your right" information?

For simply getting attention, a loud clicky freewheel (if you have one) works surprisingly well and is a sound that most people can easily interpret as "cyclist". Otherwise, a decent bell or an "excuse me" and leave it to the walkers to decide whether to go left or right – but be already slowing down before you call or ring, so it's clear you're giving way to them not forcing your way through.
Fair comment.
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simonineaston
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by simonineaston »

Trouble is, this "I'm on your right (or some-such)" business has limited efficacy due to multiple factors such as audience either being a bit dim, or else hard-of-hearing or else spinning round on hearing the shout and then getting confused about which 'right' you meant, or that classic, when a couple splits, so that one blocks your right path, the other your left - and their dog stands in the centre ground, looking confused... !! :lol:
I go out most Sundays, with an informal walking group and from a pedestrian's pov, I think most cyclists leave their warning (if they give one at all!) too late... as a walker, I think the earlier the bell is rung or shout is made the better - it gives all parties time to think about what to do and rehearse doing it, to the mutual satisfaction of all...
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
thirdcrank
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by thirdcrank »

Perhaps some of the problem has been representing tow paths as a good way of getting cyclists off the road network. In reality, depending the whereabouts of a particular bit of canal, there can be a lot of other people using what is normally a narrow strip, intended only for draught horses: dog walkers, anglers, pedestrians, as well as some unsavoury types.
millimole
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Re: "You're welcome" when you're not, on a canal towpath

Post by millimole »

Although this has drifted into the usual towpath discussion I'll put my pennyworth in.
I'm a volunteer for The Canal and River Trust (CRT) so what I say is slightly coloured by that.
CRT are damned whatever they do with the towpaths. If they improve them (and they get grants to do so) to enable disabled access - which also helps cyclists - they are accused (by boaters and walkers) of creating 'bicycle motorways' for cyclists to speed along. Leave the towpath as a muddy / neglected track and the disabled lobby are on their backs and other lobby groups want to know where 'all the money is being spent'.
In my volunteering I often feel its a circle of every group hating every other group (boaters, walkers, cyclists, anglers, dog walkers, joggers, photographers, etc etc).

Towpaths are fine for cyclists, generally, but they are not suitable for fast progress, and anyone not seeing this needs to take a dog and a couple of toddlers for a stroll along their local towpath.

We (the English) seem to have lost the sense of give-and-take and replaced it with an attitude of 'I'm the only one who matters' (generalisation accepted)
Leicester; Riding my Hetchins since 1971; Day rides on my Dawes; Going to the shops on a Decathlon Hoprider
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