Pavement fines

AHB

Pavement fines

Postby AHB » 12 Nov 2005, 12:39pm

Doesn't it look bad (and is bad) if CTC London objects to all pavement cyclists being fined: surely it is perfectly fair to fine those who are cycling fast enough to injure any pedestrians present or who could emerge from shops/driveways etc, dont walk in a perfectly straight line (its their pavement, they can walk in a zigzag if they want), ie faster than walking speed, whilst allowing more latitude for those who are being careful whilst dis-obeying the letter of the law:

"CTC London is objecting to proposals in the London Local Authorities and
Transport for London (LLAaTfL) Bill to give London Authority wardens the
power to fine pavement cyclists. We don't dispute that pavement cycling
causes problems, but this Bill would result in under-paid and
poorly-trained wardens having a cash incentive to book cyclists who may
be too timid to take to busy roads. They would have no powers to tackle
teenagers. CTC's preferred way of dealing with pavement cyclists would
be to give Police and Community Support Officers the option of sending
offenders on a cycle training course. "

Pedalling Pete

Re:Pavement fines

Postby Pedalling Pete » 12 Nov 2005, 1:10pm

Please consider the situation I face in my locality: Traffic increases resulting from Prescott's mob overruling local objections to more greenfield housing, will require a "Traffic Management Scheme".

That includes a "single-working gateway" without priority assigned. That means a cyclist forced head to bumper in a narrow pinch-point. A view overheard at the hall where the scheme was presented was that cyclists didn't pay road tax so could be ignored. Yes, they really are going to run us cyclists down, just as Clarkson said!

So if cyclists want to preserve their lives at this design feature presented by the county council to manage the (motor) traffic, what is the option?

The only option is to take to the pavement to avoid being killed.

I would be disgusted with the CTC if they lay down and allowed this proposed legislation to be implemented without question.

And just check the figures for the number of pedestrians killed annually by bicycles where the cyclist was not riding in the carriageway. Compare that with the number of cyclists killed by motor vehicles when both were in the carriagway. The former is seen by media, public and politicians as a major issue to be tackled with new legislation, while the latter is ignored in favour of reducing usage of speed cameras etc.

Andy Tallis

Re:Pavement fines

Postby Andy Tallis » 12 Nov 2005, 8:27pm

Perhaps all that is really needed is some discretion, good cycle training provision and for motorists to be a bit more considerate (I expect people like Clarkson would complain most if run down byu a cyclist on a pavement.)

I am appauled that a local authority can assume they can ignore cyclists' needs as we don't pay road tax. Apart from the well thrashed facts that many cyclists own cars, and we pay income tax, VAT and council tax, many people cannot afford a car and the bicycle is a lifeline.

Pedalling Pete

Re:Pavement fines

Postby Pedalling Pete » 13 Nov 2005, 7:41am

Just to correct Andy's interpretation of my comments: The view that cyclists can be ignored was made by a member of the motoring public, not by the reps of the local authority. But the incredible thing is that the County Council Highways Engineer responsible for putting forward this scheme is actually a member of a local cycle racing club.

Was he too stupid to recognise the dangers for fellow cyclists of the unprioritised pinch point? Or does he work in a jobsworth culture of Highways Engineering that only addresses motor vehicle management - ignoring the needs of cyclists? Or do both of the above apply? I suspect that is the true situation!

gar

Re:Pavement fines

Postby gar » 13 Nov 2005, 11:43am

but this Bill would result in under-paid and
poorly-trained wardens having a cash incentive to book cyclists who maybe too timid to take to busy roads


Bournemouth promeneade is a case in point for the stopping of cyclists by Quasi official paid yobs.

Until we resolved the matter to everybody's
satisfaction including sustrans route2 and both Poole and Bournemouth DCs, needs, there was great animosity to cyclists and vice versa.

We successfully scaled the rights to use the promenade (pavement) depending exactly on the season and the time of day.
Mid day/ mid summer...NO CYCLING and rightly so. After 7pm... cycling... after September.......cycling and so on.
One thing that was not resolved to my own satisfaction was the max speed for a cyclists when there are both peds/ cyclists using.
10mph is far too high for mixed use.
Even 5mph would injure some old folk,
and worry them in any event

FREEDOM OF THE PAVEMENTS FOR
CYCLISTS..... at 5mph max.

Arm them all with mini speed traps for cyclists
above 5mph.!

AHB

Re:Pavement fines

Postby AHB » 13 Nov 2005, 1:28pm

But I'm only suggesting it is reasonable to fine cyclists for wilfully risking injuring pedestrians by zooming along pavemens full of pedestrians: if they cycle carefully at walking speed or dismount when amongst pedestrians or when passing entrances/doorways/driveways etc from which pedestrians could appear, then just training / no fine or would seem reasonable. Wouldn't that be the approach of a sensible policeman?

Dick Dastardly

Re:Pavement fines

Postby Dick Dastardly » 13 Nov 2005, 3:30pm

most pedestrians are mongs anyway...even while walking along a town centre street loads walk straight out of shops into your path without looking left or right. Maybe pedestrians should have a "general awareness of others and how to walk in a straight line without hogging the pavement" course thrust upon them too. Buggies and prams should be banned from city/town centres at weekends too...menaces, dogs banned permanently from everywhere, uber menaces.
Gar- Jack Dee once said that Bournemouth Prom was like "the beginning of Michael Jacksons Thriller video"!!! In reference to the amount of senior citizens aimlessly ambling along like the living dead!!!he he he...

gar

Re:Pavement fines

Postby gar » 13 Nov 2005, 5:10pm

Dead Pan Dee Eh?!

There are 17,000 foreign students there in July/August and they generally enjoy swimming and loads of..... nightlife.

A great many more people have started using the prom for cycling this year becoz they know it s legal.... including the.... living dead....

The only comparison with london pavements
is the possible extreme unpleasantness of the wardens.

Andy Tallis

Re:Pavement fines

Postby Andy Tallis » 13 Nov 2005, 6:07pm

Only 5mph on a bike? I'd be struggling to stay at such a low speed on the flat, feathering the brakes.
Sorry I misunderstood your post P.P. , I'd done 125 mountainous miles yesterday so was probably half dead!

gar

Re:Pavement fines

Postby gar » 17 Nov 2005, 11:18am

AT,

Did you use the same route as the previous time?

gar

Re:Pavement fines

Postby gar » 18 Nov 2005, 7:49am

DD
The living dead are now cycling on the pedestrian promenade at 5mph because they know that it is quasilegal.

Lawful or unlawful should not be in question about cycling on pavements, at any time.

The duty of care should be, at all times.

Andy Tallis

Re:Pavement fines

Postby Andy Tallis » 18 Nov 2005, 1:40pm

Depends which previous time. I'd done it once before about 5 weeks previously (in warmer weather and less of a wind.)

gar

Re:Pavement fines

Postby gar » 18 Nov 2005, 5:16pm

Yeah you did say about a month ago; time flies.