4 Cyclists Killed

PhilipB

4 Cyclists Killed

Postby PhilipB » 9 Jan 2006, 8:26am

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story ... 06,00.html

Now, sliding on ice I can understand. But sliding on ice so badly that you kill four people and injure a number of others, and then the police say that that was 'not excessive speed'

The Chief Constable of North Wales is
Richard Brunstrom and he can be contacted at

North Wales Police
Chief Constable's Office
Glyn Y Don
Colywyn Bay
LL29 8AW

I think he deserves a few letters.

Fax: 01492 513248

jb

Re:4 Cyclists Killed

Postby jb » 9 Jan 2006, 9:58am

I’d wait for the full story first; he can’t condemn somebody on the spot without a decent investigation period, however obviously wrong it might be. After all nobody was actually checking the drivers speed at the time.

CJ

Re:4 Cyclists Killed

Postby CJ » 9 Jan 2006, 11:10am

Precisely jb. In which case the police spokesman's comments were at best premature and at worst prejudicial to an impartial assesment of the event. By making such a statement he encouraged the world media to excuse the motorist's self-evident error as a pure accident and worst of all: learn nothing from it.

jb

Re:4 Cyclists Killed

Postby jb » 9 Jan 2006, 1:03pm

Ok, I agree CJ, so he should have said nothing one way or the other, but he had to say something; I wonder how easy it is to do that at the scene of an accident? Almost anything could be construed as bias to one or the other.

PhilipB

Re:4 Cyclists Killed

Postby PhilipB » 9 Jan 2006, 2:04pm

Why did he have 'to say something'. Presumably he could, quite correctly have said 'we are investigating what happened'. What was actually said was the usual...amounting to 'it wasn't the motorist's fault', 'these things happen', 'it was an accident'.

Now, I certainly agree in waiting to hearing the whole facts, and I am not in favour of hanging, drawing and quartering people who make a minor error of judgement, even when the consequences are fatal. However, it is pretty obvious in this case that whatever else might be true or false, a speed of 50mph (police estimate) was not safe in those conditions. Anyone can slide a bit on ice - but if you end up careering down the opposite side of the road, you were travelling too fast.

godric

Re:4 Cyclists Killed

Postby godric » 9 Jan 2006, 2:42pm

If I may add a comment. We hear that the road where this incident happened has been called a "dangerous road".

There is no such thing - there is only a bad, a careless or a dangerous driver. A road is an inanimate object. It is driver error which is to blame for most so-called road "accidents".

In this case, it seems the driver was driving at 50 mph which is surely an excessive speed for the conditions, given that ice or "black ice" was present.

Some years ago I worked in a Hospital and spent time in A&E as it then was, and I used to see the results of so-called RTA (Road Traffic Accidents).

Calling such things "accidents" when the driver is mostly to blame is wrong. We should call them what they mostly are - driver errors.

The use of such terms as "accidents" is surely a sign of our car-mad culture.

jb

Re:4 Cyclists Killed

Postby jb » 9 Jan 2006, 4:13pm

I'm certainly not trying to get the driver off the hook, all I’m saying is that a load of letters landing on the police constables desk when he should be investigating the incident is not helpful.

Afterwards maybe.

gar

Re:4 Cyclists Killed

Postby gar » 9 Jan 2006, 5:25pm

Calling such things "accidents" when the driver is mostly to blame is wrong. We should call them what they mostly are - driver errors.The use of such terms as "accidents" is surely a sign of our car-mad culture.

Wise words from somebody who knows
I would dispute the idea that there is no such thing as a dangerous road but I see the point.

The cycling A+E are the worst are they not?

Elucasr

Re:4 Cyclists Killed

Postby Elucasr » 10 Jan 2006, 7:26am

Having spent 8+ years in the Special Constabulary, I have always preferred to call them "Road Traffic Incidents" not "Road Traffic Accidents",

David

Re:4 Cyclists Killed

Postby David » 18 Jan 2006, 7:38pm

The term RTA has now been replaced by the term Road Traffic Crashes(RTC) as this is what they are.