Motorcycles in Bus Lanes

[AHB]

In Belfast motorcycles have been experimentally allowed in bus lanes.

I objected because the many Bus Lanes are the width of a bus and I thought upon seeing a cyclist with empty road ahead and a full outside lane motorcyclists might just squeeze past too close. Two strokes sometimes make me jump when they pass because they get much louder just as they are beside you: I dont want them to be close.
At minimum I thougth two strokes should be banned because their cause so much more pollution (why can they still be sold when cars need cats?). The Roads service just said all motorcycles complied with emissions standards so this didnt count

I use the Bus lane early in the morning so have not been passed within bus lanes but since the scheme started have been passed closely (mainly by mopeds) outside them: I dont know whether this is coincidence.

One lane has parked cars in lay-bys (whose owners sometimes open doors then look behind) so I cycle a doors width out but some other cyclists dont: being passed closely at same time as this would be bad.

The Roads service mentioned motorcycle safety as a reason: but didnt explain.

If Motorcycles use half the fuel of a car this doesnt seem a big improvement: perhaps cars could use bus lanes (but then they would be ordinary lanes).

The scheme is now being extended.
Does anybody know anything about other schemes.

[pwward]

In Newcastle u Tyne there are very few bus lanes, instead the council designates them no car lanes allowing taxis, motorcycles, lorries and vans to use them. Of course a good many cars still drive in them anyway.

[Ollie]

As both a cyclist and sometime motorcyclist, I would be interested to know how much real conflict exists between the two user groups. I use both modes of transport in London and don't seem to notice much...when I'm cycling I find the behaviour of buses far more irritating - and taxis seems to be a law unto themselves. Having said that, if there is proper evidence of motorcyclists causing problems for cyclists, then I’m all in favour of them staying out of bus lanes.
To answer AHB's point, two-stroke motorcycles can no longer be sold new in the UK as they do not meet emissions laws.

[Chris]

2 strokes are still sold in the UK. Think how little power you would get out of a 50cc moped if you didnt have 2 strokes? They would be so slow it's dangerous, they barely do 50 de-restricted anyway. The smokey 2 strokes are just old ones that havent been maintained properly. The new 2 strokes are just as environmently friendly as some 4 strokes.
And Why cant motorcycle be allowed in bus lanes? It's a far safer place to be than squeezing past cars which may suddenly change lanes or squash together. Aren't they allowed to be safe on the roads aswell? And it's not as if the motorcycle hold any of the traffic up. How many times have you seen a bus try and overtake a motorcycle compared to a bus try and overtake a push bike?

[AHB]

Even new 2 strokes seem to throw out
much noxious fumes compared to four strokes and without valves how could they not?

I don't mind motorcyclists being safe (as long as it its isn't at expense of someone else's safety): I didn't see what advantage bus lanes would offer them as they involve undertaking slow queues hence speed should be limited just like me on bike and bike is closer to junctions on left.
In bus lanes sometimes buses change lane to pass me, sometimes if they cant then I let them pass, sometimes they hold me up (and once the motorcycle behind me too).

I think two strokes not equal or better to a four stoke emissions should be banned at least: I think this would be all of them because the super clean ones (valved presumably) promised are presumably still in labs somewhere.

I fear 2 stroke riders the most because when they pass close they make me jump with the sudden loud buzzing noise.

[Chris]

<font color="blue">I see your point, but i think the real reason that 2 strokes seem more annoying is the fact of the riders riding them. These 2 strokes are the less powerful bikes, ridden normally by people on low budgets or are on their provisional liscence and so are less experienced and youger less skillful and annoyin riders. These bikes can only really keep up with the traffic in crowded city's as they are underpowered, and so must of these riders are going flat out on their engines. Anyway a cyclist can normally keep up with these 2 strokes, they're quite slow in comparison to the "proper" bikes!

I don't think motorcycle should be banned, but perhaps more training around use of bus lanes and other road users should be given. And i think this should apply to all users of the road from horse, cyclists, car drivers, lorry's etc. We shoudl learn to </font><font colour="red">harmanise and share the roads</font>

[Ollie]

It seems I am wrong about all two-strokes being banned, but it seems many can no longer be sold due to emissions laws. Chris, you make an interesting point about this type of motorcycle being ridden by inexperienced riders. I agree wholeheartedly about the 'living in harmony' point as well. That's why I was interested to know how much real conflict there is between cyclists and motorcyclists.

[Tony]

I think a lot of the problem with motorcycles is the minority effect. They are seen through a very distorting lens and lumped in as "all the same". A prominent outdoor magazine editor once suggested they be stoned on site, and was deluged with letters asking why a climber's transport to the crag mattered.
Getting a motorcycle licence is more complicated, restricted and expensive than getting a car licence. Insurance and maintenance are also more costly. Most two-stroke "wasp in jam jar" riders are either kids waiting for their first car, car drivers using them to save money (with all their prejudices intact) or illegal and unlicensed riders. I have never found any conflict in real terms between "my" two communities and feel we have a lot in common. What legislators do to bikers is only waiting for cyclists in years to come.

[Tony]

"STONED ON SITE"? Ooops..."sight"....

[Chris]

I agree, but in London it wqs worked out due to the congestion charge you would break even buying a new bike for £5000(you can get a reasonable 600cc bike for that) if you rode the bike into london every day during congestion charge times. This includes insurance and cost of running it for the averga rider! Maybe thats why 2 strokes have had a take off, because they are smaller and easier to manouvre in a congested city.

[Tony]

A big problem with the scooter style of bike is that it is seen as a fashion accessory. With a mixture of kids and idiot car drivers who assume, believe it or not, that their car licence entitles them to drive any "scooter", accidents are waiting to happen. Real motorcyclists end up serving a sort of apprenticeship that gives them a good idea of what is going on around them. It's the kids, the two-wheeled car drivers and the born-again "weekend warriors" that are the problem--AMONGST BIKERS. I still contend that the real dangers are four wheeled.

[troywinters]

erm someone explain to me how come a car can now do 80mpg ( audi A2 )but a moped cant do at least 160mpg seeing as it's got half the wheels and less than half the top speed and a lot less weight, why are mopeds so inefficient

[Tony]

mopeds have more air resistance due to their geometry. They are also restricted (strangled) to keep their design speed down to 50 kmph. Any decent moped WILL return well over 100 mpg, but they are generally thrashed because of said restriction

[Chris]

Quote: "erm someone explain to me how come a car can now do 80mpg ( audi A2 )but a moped cant do at least 160mpg seeing as it's got half the wheels and less than half the top speed and a lot less weight, why are mopeds so inefficient Because "mopeds" althoug hlaf the weight or even less, hav a tiny power to weight ratio, or torque, or really anything going for them. The engines on them are tiny, that's why the can't do it. They are high revving tiny little oil eating, gas guzzling 2 strokes. Now you get onto 4 strokes with 600cc engines and above, and they do a decent mpg. Some will do 80, but you can vary how much fuel economy you get out of them by the way you ride it. A motorcycle has anough performance to out perform virtually any car (yes there are very very very few exceptions. People don't actually ride 2 strokes for fun, they're just good round the city because they are small, and quite cheap for maintenance, road tax, insurance etc.

[Elucasr]

If you are talking about economy, what about the Cyclemaster of the 1950's, did around 240mpg with a 25cc engine. It couldn't zoom past a cyclist either. Many older cyclists probably zoomed past the Cyclemaster's.