I should start be reiterating that personally I am totally against cycle routes as I think they will ultimately lead to cyclists being excluded from roads.
Talking to 2 local members this morning we got around to discussion the changes proposed to wording in the Highway Code. Namely the advice to use cycle routes when available.
One of them said they had been made aware that Sustrans in order to bolster their position and increase funding, were actively lobbing for this advice to be in the HC.
The CTC should find out if this is the case and if so publicly state their opposition to Sustrans and cease all cooperation.
Are Sustrans really lobbying for Highway Code changes?
-
Pinky
Re:Are Sustrans really lobbying for Highway Code changes?
If there is evidence that Sustrans is actively supporting the HC amandments ten I would think that CTC should have immediate corresponence with Sustrans indicating an intention to take ten paces step back from any form of cooperation with a very suspect organisation.
Having said that, I haven't yet seen or heard any evidence to say that this is fact.
I shall have a look around!
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire
Having said that, I haven't yet seen or heard any evidence to say that this is fact.
I shall have a look around!
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire
-
gar
Re:Are Sustrans really lobbying for Highway Code changes?
I am polarising very rapidly from receivd CTC opinion on this. I disagree with both Dave and Pinky.
Consider this:
“use cycle routes when practicable and cycle facilities ... where they are provided” (Rule 58). If confirmed, this would open the way for driver's insurance companies to seek to reduce the damages for any cyclists injured by their clients, on the basis that the cyclist’s failure to use a nearby cycle facility (in accordance with the Highway Code) represented "contributory negligence".
Does a cycle track mean a cycle MARKING on the road put there by a casual Council employee
of limited intelligence. I doubt it.
Whatever the changes and whatever the meaning
put upon the words, these things have to be taken on a case by case basis.
A cyclist has right to take his bike where he wants to take it, to get where he want to go.
If that means NOT using a cycle track to get there, then that is what he must do, without prejudice to any accident claim.
Consider this:
“use cycle routes when practicable and cycle facilities ... where they are provided” (Rule 58). If confirmed, this would open the way for driver's insurance companies to seek to reduce the damages for any cyclists injured by their clients, on the basis that the cyclist’s failure to use a nearby cycle facility (in accordance with the Highway Code) represented "contributory negligence".
Does a cycle track mean a cycle MARKING on the road put there by a casual Council employee
of limited intelligence. I doubt it.
Whatever the changes and whatever the meaning
put upon the words, these things have to be taken on a case by case basis.
A cyclist has right to take his bike where he wants to take it, to get where he want to go.
If that means NOT using a cycle track to get there, then that is what he must do, without prejudice to any accident claim.
-
bikepacker
Re:Are Sustrans really lobbying for Highway Code changes?
So there is something in this!
-
PH
Re:Are Sustrans really lobbying for Highway Code changes?
Where did this rumour start?
I've spoken to Sustrans Rangers, suporters and employees, none of them have heard it. Sustrans policy is made by a very small group of members (12?) The idea that it leaked from one of them is a bit doubtful as is the idea that this is their policy. Does anyone understand the freedom of information act? Will all submissions to a govt agency end up public? If so time will tell.
I've spoken to Sustrans Rangers, suporters and employees, none of them have heard it. Sustrans policy is made by a very small group of members (12?) The idea that it leaked from one of them is a bit doubtful as is the idea that this is their policy. Does anyone understand the freedom of information act? Will all submissions to a govt agency end up public? If so time will tell.
-
Andy Tallis
Re:Are Sustrans really lobbying for Highway Code changes?
The changes to the highway code will be a disaster for law abiding, careful and safety concious cyclists. Consider this: An ASL is provided at a set of lights. Therefore I should use it according to the HC - even if that involves going up the inside of an HGV that is indicating left? Now if I have the brains not to do so and wait in the que, I am breaking the HC! Those who made the ammendments appear to have been rediculously naive and clearly didn't bother to gauge the opinion of serious, experienced cyclists who ride decent distances on a regular basis.
As for Sustrans I have no time for them - they provided a traffic free route from Bangor to Ogwen Cottage so I can avoid a lot of beautiful quiet lanes and instead enjoy the thrill of negotiating gates and gravel, and probably dodging dogs. If I want to go to Conway though I have to use the A55 or take an enourmous detour via Betws-y-Coed! Real Sustainable Transport!
Andy
As for Sustrans I have no time for them - they provided a traffic free route from Bangor to Ogwen Cottage so I can avoid a lot of beautiful quiet lanes and instead enjoy the thrill of negotiating gates and gravel, and probably dodging dogs. If I want to go to Conway though I have to use the A55 or take an enourmous detour via Betws-y-Coed! Real Sustainable Transport!
Andy
-
gar
Re:Are Sustrans really lobbying for Highway Code changes?
Dorchester to Yeovil is the same in parts.
I am not accompanied by three eight year olds so the route is not much good.
I am not accompanied by three eight year olds so the route is not much good.
-
PH
Re:Are Sustrans really lobbying for Highway Code changes?
-As for Sustrans I have no time for them-
There's a big difference between saying you don't like them and spreading a rumour that nobody seems able to back up.
There's a big difference between saying you don't like them and spreading a rumour that nobody seems able to back up.
-
bikepacker
Re:Are Sustrans really lobbying for Highway Code changes?
No denials either.
The silence from Sustrans is deafening.
The silence from Sustrans is deafening.
-
gar
Re:Are Sustrans really lobbying for Highway Code changes?
www.sustrans.org.uk/default.asp?search_value=Highway+code&search_type=simple&submit=GO
Here is a link to the search entry for Highway Code on Sustrans website internal search tool.
Quite a lot of interest there.
You gotta realise that Sustrans HAS to satisfy
the needs of local government cycling departments first and foremost.
Sustrans CONNECTS local government, and does it well. I don't support Tiny Grimshaw though. not my type of midget at all.
Safe routes to schools is a very valuable campaign designed to get children back on to their bikes to school.
That campaign alone, is more important than ANY cycling campaign for grumpy old men from a die hard traditional cycling club, including Andy Tallis.
Here is a link to the search entry for Highway Code on Sustrans website internal search tool.
Quite a lot of interest there.
You gotta realise that Sustrans HAS to satisfy
the needs of local government cycling departments first and foremost.
Sustrans CONNECTS local government, and does it well. I don't support Tiny Grimshaw though. not my type of midget at all.
Safe routes to schools is a very valuable campaign designed to get children back on to their bikes to school.
That campaign alone, is more important than ANY cycling campaign for grumpy old men from a die hard traditional cycling club, including Andy Tallis.
-
bikepacker
Re:Are Sustrans really lobbying for Highway Code changes?
I don't know what Andy is going to say about being called a grumpy old man.
-
Andy Tallis
Re:Are Sustrans really lobbying for Highway Code changes?
Yeah, I'm only 19!
I am not spreading any rumopur I cannot back up. I have cycled thousands of miles around GB and found the following facilities were the only ones I appreciated: ASLs and filter lanes; the cycle track across the Old Severn Bridge and on to Chepstow - as it is very well separated from the motorway/dual carriageway for once; the Avon Valley Cycle track in Salisbury - not for safety but convenience when the roads are stuffed full.
That amounts to the ASLs and filter lanes plus abotu 7m of track. I can find a lot lot more tracks that pose a very serious hazard to my safety and would be extremely inconveninet and uncomfortable to use.
Sustrans are not providing sustainable transport - I would not feel happy about using a route of theirs on a daily basis unless it is one of the many ones that is simply their signposts on a road or perhaps pre existing track like the Avon Valley one.
Andy
I am not spreading any rumopur I cannot back up. I have cycled thousands of miles around GB and found the following facilities were the only ones I appreciated: ASLs and filter lanes; the cycle track across the Old Severn Bridge and on to Chepstow - as it is very well separated from the motorway/dual carriageway for once; the Avon Valley Cycle track in Salisbury - not for safety but convenience when the roads are stuffed full.
That amounts to the ASLs and filter lanes plus abotu 7m of track. I can find a lot lot more tracks that pose a very serious hazard to my safety and would be extremely inconveninet and uncomfortable to use.
Sustrans are not providing sustainable transport - I would not feel happy about using a route of theirs on a daily basis unless it is one of the many ones that is simply their signposts on a road or perhaps pre existing track like the Avon Valley one.
Andy
-
gar
Re:Are Sustrans really lobbying for Highway Code changes?
I can find a lot lot more tracks that pose a very serious hazard to my safety and
I broke my leg on one of those.
2)wasn't the Avon Cycle Track partly planned by Sustrans?
I broke my leg on one of those.
2)wasn't the Avon Cycle Track partly planned by Sustrans?
-
PH
Re:Are Sustrans really lobbying for Highway Code changes?
Andy wrote
"I am not spreading any rumopur I cannot back up."
I'm sorry Andy I wasn't suggesting that you were spreading any rumour (or even rumopur) More that you post was completely irrelevant to the subject "Are Sustrans really lobbying for Highway Code changes?"This remains unsubstantiated, even by the lowest tabloid journalism standards.
"I am not spreading any rumopur I cannot back up."
I'm sorry Andy I wasn't suggesting that you were spreading any rumour (or even rumopur) More that you post was completely irrelevant to the subject "Are Sustrans really lobbying for Highway Code changes?"This remains unsubstantiated, even by the lowest tabloid journalism standards.
-
bikepacker
Re:Are Sustrans really lobbying for Highway Code changes?
It may have escaped your notice but it is asked as a question. That question was asked on the basis of information I received. So far I think the information is correct but until I find out more I shall keep asking the question.