Proposed Ammendments to Bicycles Safety Regs

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Punk_shore
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handlebar layout

Postby Punk_shore » 5 Feb 2009, 11:18am

Hi there, just been browsing the technical and training sections in between stops at the tea shop.
Did I miss something, or was there no requirement as to which side of the handlebars the bell, etc. should be fitted?
Also, does a "right handlebar for front brake" instruction mean that inverted brake levers can be used to legalise a wrong-way-round fitted trailled front fork/ arm?
Sorry to pick nits, only I see this issue as a chance to standardise some bicycle assembly matters. Please air one's views :lol:

Kind regards, Punk_shore
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Punk_shore
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Re: Proposed Ammendments to Bicycles Safety Regs

Postby Punk_shore » 28 Feb 2009, 1:48pm

Sorry to be pedantic, but this whole handlebars & brakes thing needs to be put in context.

Start with the seat (saddle). This needs to be pointing away from the back wheel and towards the front wheel. When a rider is sitting on the seat facing forwards, the back brake lever will be at the (rider's) left hand end of the handlebar. The handlebar movement corresponds to steering the front wheel.

Is there any reason why the back brake lever can not be coloured red and the right hand (front) brake lever green :mrgreen: please (as with port & starboard respectively on boats)?

I would happily :D give up my time to attend some of these technical discussions. Kind regards, Punk_shore
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thirdcrank
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Re: Proposed Ammendments to Bicycles Safety Regs

Postby thirdcrank » 28 Feb 2009, 4:14pm

You've lost me there. Anybody can see which are their left and right levers. The problem for some may be remembering which does what if it's not their own normal configuration. Colour coding, if it is needed should identify front and rear rather than left and right. It's only ever really going to be relevant in an emergency stop, when the rider should not be looking down at their brake levers.

tb
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Re: Proposed Ammendments to Bicycles Safety Regs

Postby tb » 1 Mar 2009, 11:09pm

oh dear,

they're not going to like my fixed wheel, no bell, no reflectors, no lights, no mudgaurds and no rear brake and mostly ridden without lid :lol:

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DaveP
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Re: Proposed Ammendments to Bicycles Safety Regs

Postby DaveP » 2 Mar 2009, 12:19am

thirdcrank wrote:You've lost me there. Anybody can see which are their left and right levers. The problem for some may be remembering which does what if it's not their own normal configuration. Colour coding, if it is needed should identify front and rear rather than left and right. It's only ever really going to be relevant in an emergency stop, when the rider should not be looking down at their brake levers.


All things considered it would just make so much more sense if both brake levers were red, as this would help with choosing the appropriate response when confronted by a red light. At the moment you can, unbelievebly, go out and by red pedals. Unbelievable!

:lol:
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CJ
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Re: Proposed Ammendments to Bicycles Safety Regs

Postby CJ » 2 Mar 2009, 11:36am

tb wrote:oh dear,

they're not going to like my fixed wheel, no bell, no reflectors, no lights, no mudgaurds and no rear brake and mostly ridden without lid :lol:

They won't give a fig. Not unless you run a bike shop and want to pass it off as a brand new bike for sale.

As far as the bike rider is concerned, all that matters is the road traffic acts. And to satisfy those all you need on a bike (in daylight) is separately operated front and rear brakes. Doesn't matter how or where they're operated so long as they work okay, and a fixed wheel counts as a rear brake.
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Re:

Postby DougieB » 3 Mar 2009, 3:01pm

EdinburghFixed wrote:I didn't realise it was a legal requirement to have the front brake controlled by the right hand!


riding (a motorbike) down the motorway today, a car driver pulled into the space I was going to be in before I slowed to avoid being wiped out. It got me thinking about this. The driver was on the phone, phone in the right hand and elbow propped on the lower window (sill?), with his right-side vision completely obscured. Like this, the left hand is free for gear changing, and the all important indicating (which when activated gives the driver automatic priority). This is a fairly typical view from the motorbike, as you always ( :roll: ) pass on the right hand side.

It got me thinking though, what would happen if the indicator stalk was on the right side (they are mostly on the left side, right?). Requiring the use of the right hand, but still requiring the driver to use the left hand for gear changes. It seems drivers use the indicator as a sort of insurance policy ('Well, I was indicating you should have got out of the way'), rather than as an indicator of intention. And that insurance policy is all the more important when you're not really paying attention, for example when you're on the phone.

Would the reverse indicator stalk confuse the poor drivers, and would their brains explode? I just wonder if it'd make using the phone such a hassle ("yep, just a sec', gear change, 'hello, yeah back', indicate, 'sorry, what', gear change, etc), that some may stop doing using the phone while driving.

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Re: Re:

Postby kwackers » 3 Mar 2009, 3:22pm

DougieB wrote:
EdinburghFixed wrote:I didn't realise it was a legal requirement to have the front brake controlled by the right hand!


riding (a motorbike) down the motorway today, a car driver pulled into the space I was going to be in before I slowed to avoid being wiped out. It got me thinking about this. The driver was on the phone, phone in the right hand and elbow propped on the lower window (sill?), with his right-side vision completely obscured. Like this, the left hand is free for gear changing, and the all important indicating (which when activated gives the driver automatic priority). This is a fairly typical view from the motorbike, as you always ( :roll: ) pass on the right hand side.

It got me thinking though, what would happen if the indicator stalk was on the right side (they are mostly on the left side, right?). Requiring the use of the right hand, but still requiring the driver to use the left hand for gear changes. It seems drivers use the indicator as a sort of insurance policy ('Well, I was indicating you should have got out of the way'), rather than as an indicator of intention. And that insurance policy is all the more important when you're not really paying attention, for example when you're on the phone.

Would the reverse indicator stalk confuse the poor drivers, and would their brains explode? I just wonder if it'd make using the phone such a hassle ("yep, just a sec', gear change, 'hello, yeah back', indicate, 'sorry, what', gear change, etc), that some may stop doing using the phone while driving.



Motorists are indicating now? When did that start???

:twisted:

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Re: Re:

Postby thirdcrank » 3 Mar 2009, 3:46pm

DougieB wrote:It got me thinking though, what would happen if the indicator stalk was on the right side (they are mostly on the left side, right?).


At least on cars built for the UK market, they did used to be the other way round. (Before that they often used to be on a little switch in the middle of the steering wheel.) Around 1979 time I had to take a driving test at work and it was the first time I had ever driven a car with that configuration, although I had been driving by then 14 years.

I spent a lot of the time windscreen wiping when I intended to indicate.....

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Re: Proposed Ammendments to Bicycles Safety Regs

Postby meic » 3 Mar 2009, 4:09pm

If the indicator control was moved then they would just not bother indicating!
The clue is in the fact that they are are on the phone and driving is not really so important to them compared to the phonecall.

I have had vehicles with indicator controls on the right side. I know because of all those times that I have turned on the windscreen wipers. :lol:
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Punk_shore
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Re: Proposed Ammendments to Bicycles Safety Regs

Postby Punk_shore » 3 Mar 2009, 6:23pm

:P Some of the older motorbikes I've owned had their (foot) gearchange on the right. Some of them were "up for first gear", some of them were "down". In about 1975 the motorcycle industry body decided to standardise on left foot gearchanges. They were able to do that because of bodies like the Motor Cycle Industries Association, which used to share Starley House with the Bicycle Association.

It's not so much how the amateur bike-tuner wants to set a bike up or even conversions for disabled people. It's a designer who doesn't want to lose face, working with a 2600 picture-symbol alphabet and trying to instruct an untrained mechanic who is working with a 26 letter alphabet. After all, how many furniture flat-packs go together correctly the first-time :?:

The point about distinguishing the right-hand end of the handlebar from the left end is that one could then reference the orientation of the front fork/ arm to the handlebars. I've seen a couple of unfortunate kids being put off bicycles because the steeering was just that bit too twitchy for them and the forks were just falling into the corners. We must be talking about product liability here. :|
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thirdcrank
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Re: Proposed Ammendments to Bicycles Safety Regs

Postby thirdcrank » 3 Mar 2009, 7:00pm

The WWII fighter pilot Douglas Bader whose story was told in the film 'Reach for the Sky' told in his autobiography of owning a sports car with rhe brake and accellerator pedals interchanged. He resumed his flying career with both artificial legs after a crash landing. (I can't remember if he had the car before or after he got his artificial legs.)

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DaveP
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Re: Proposed Ammendments to Bicycles Safety Regs

Postby DaveP » 3 Mar 2009, 11:17pm

IIRC he previously had a motor bike.
I read Reach for the Sky as a lad and I remember thinking that swapping the pedals around was jolly clever, given that one of his legs had more control because it included a knee.
Hadnt thought about it for years unil you mentioned it, and now I'm amazed. I've recently been using a fork truck with non conventional pedals - right foot for throttle, left foot has a rocker pedal for forward and reverse. The further you rock the faster things happen. And when things happen too fast - you push in the clutch, dont you...Aaarrgh!

It'll never happen to a bike though - Whew!
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Re: Proposed Ammendments to Bicycles Safety Regs

Postby Phil_Lee » 7 Mar 2009, 6:45pm

I once reversed the handlebar controls on a motorcycle so that I could ride with my right wrist in plaster.
It really messed up my reflexes, and took nearly as long to unlearn afterwards.
It' opened my eyes to the "muscle memory" effect, and the desirability of bicycle controls having the same location as the motorcycle ones, where they perform the same function.
It must be horrible learning to ride a motorcycle when you've become accustomed to riding a US spec bicycle, with the brakes the wrong way round.

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Re: Proposed Ammendments to Bicycles Safety Regs

Postby PW » 7 Mar 2009, 9:17pm

The indicator stalks on a bus vary with the make. People who indicate with the wipers :roll: are said to have "Volvo Disease".
If they weren't standard the motons would get used to it.
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