Should CTC join campaigns for 20mph?

SP
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Should CTC join campaigns for 20mph?

Postby SP » 9 Jun 2009, 12:14pm

Most experienced cyclists started not with a 50 mile ride on a 531 framed bike, but as youngsters using a bike to get about on their local roads. This is precisely what CTC and others are trying to promote but fears regarding safety prevent most adults and children from cycling on our roads.

The government currently has a consultation out on the replacement of the basic 30mph speed limit with one of 20mph in order to improve not just the perception, but the reality of safety on the roads where we live, shop, send our children to school and often, where we go to work.

Organisations such as Living Streets (‘the pedestrians organisation’), RoadPeace, Streets Alive, The Green Party, London Cycling Campaign, City Cyclists, Warrington Cycle Campaign, as well as the various 20’s Plenty and Life begins at 20 campaigns, all recognise and campaign for a basic 20mph speed limit.

Is it not in the interests of the CTC’s ‘Safety in Numbers’ campaign to join with these other groups to lobby for the reduction of the 30mph speed limit to 20mph, with signed exceptions, in order to achieve the actual, not just perceived, improvements in safety for those not in cars, so as to promote cycling as a viable mode of transport for journeys around our towns?

Should the CTC campaign for this?

In the meantime, this petition on the 10 Downing Street web site is promoting this cause:

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Rebalance/

The CTC has shown itself to be a real force in campaigning for change in the cyclists area of 'Active Travel', and if it joined these other groups a result could be the first step toward a real increase in the numbers of people using cycling as real, practical, everyday transport, as so convincingly promoted by Chris Juden and others.

Regards,

Steve Peterson

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squeaker
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Re: Should CTC join campaigns for 20mph?

Postby squeaker » 9 Jun 2009, 12:35pm

Yes! Along with some form of 'hierarchy of liability' for accidents + speed limit reductions on rural, non-classified, roads.
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Re: Should CTC join campaigns for 20mph?

Postby 2Tubs » 9 Jun 2009, 12:38pm

Should CTC join campaigns for 20mph?


Yes.

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Swizz69
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Re: Should CTC join campaigns for 20mph?

Postby Swizz69 » 9 Jun 2009, 1:23pm

Yes

Along with some form of 'hierarchy of liability' for accidents + speed limit reductions on rural, non-classified, roads.


And yes

How it will work in practice though is another thing entirely. We live in a 20mph area, part of which is a bit of a rat-run during rush hours. Driving home in the car, should anyone hang on the rear bumper wishing to go faster, i'll often take a detour along the whole stretch of road :twisted:

(wouldn't want them to get caught speeding - doing them a favour, honest :shock: :wink: )

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Re: Should CTC join campaigns for 20mph?

Postby PBA » 9 Jun 2009, 1:53pm

Would (or should) cyclists comply with the reduced speed limits? With 30 mph I stand no chance of breaking the speed limit on my bike but with 20 mph I would regularly exceed it. Currently speed limits don't directly apply to cyclists, but in urban 20 mph zones - maybe thay should?

tali42
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Re: Should CTC join campaigns for 20mph?

Postby tali42 » 24 Jun 2009, 7:41pm

Only 49 signatures when I signed the petition. :(

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Re: Should CTC join campaigns for 20mph?

Postby SP » 24 Jun 2009, 9:36pm

Yep, 49 isn't impressive is it, especially compared with 33,000+ on the one opposing dropping the national speed limit to 50, possibly to do with links to that petition being on the home page of the likes of the Association of British Drivers.

I have emailed all the active travel, cycling campaign and 'living streets' type organisations I can think of but have to admit, the result isn't impressive.

Anyone out there who would like to add their signature? Perhaps CTC could include a link on their own home page??

Just in case, the link is:

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Rebalance/

It has to be a first step in civilising our town streets and encouraging people and their children to walk and cycle rather than always jump in the car.

Regards,

Steve
Last edited by SP on 24 Jun 2009, 10:03pm, edited 1 time in total.

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richardyorkshire
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Re: Should CTC join campaigns for 20mph?

Postby richardyorkshire » 24 Jun 2009, 9:56pm

I've often thought that reducing the speed limit to 20mph on the streets around where I live would be a superb idea. Mainly to reduce the noise of the all traffic trundling past. It's quite obvious from the cars rolling down my street that the slow moving ones generate markedly less noise than the ones pushing the speed limit.

However, I've realised recently that I regularly exceed 20mph when cycling to work through the same streets. And I find doing so is great fun. So can I really ask cars to stick below 20mph when I enjoy exceeding it on a bicycle? What to do?
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johncharles
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Re: Should CTC join campaigns for 20mph?

Postby johncharles » 25 Jun 2009, 10:06am

No.

No way should there be a blanket reduction to 20 mph.

There is the capability to have a reduced speed limit already in areas which are seen to require it.

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Re: Should CTC join campaigns for 20mph?

Postby SP » 25 Jun 2009, 4:18pm

Hello johncharles,

The idea is not to produce a blanket 20mph speed limit any more than there is a blanket 30mph speed limit at present.

Rather to make the baseline, default residential area speed limit 20, not 30, with signed exceptions, so as to re-establish the need for street environments whose priority is the people living in them, rather than the convenience of the motorists travelling along them.

A spin off has been shown to be improved pedestrian safety, especially children, and it is likely to encourage more people to cycle, to walk and to allow their children to do so.


Regards,

Steve


http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Rebalance/

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Re: Should CTC join campaigns for 20mph?

Postby Tonyf33 » 25 Jun 2009, 5:06pm

Sorry but I disagree with this. 20mph near schools & other buildings at certain times of day I've no problem with but 20mph in ordinary residential areas, absolutely not. It's not the speed it's the lack of observation, planning & general attitude of road users ( & often brain power) that are the main culprits.
to me it's about educating new drivers from the outset and maybe even bringing in a law to have ALL existing drivers who haven't done Hazard perception as part of their test to sit compulsary classes with more emphasis on the effects of bad driving/lack of obs forward planning with regard vunerable road users.
IF a future government are really serious about health & environment they would need to take serious measures but reducing speed limits round town is not one of them that would have the desired effect to increase cycling significantly.

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Re: Should CTC join campaigns for 20mph?

Postby Tom Richardson » 25 Jun 2009, 5:33pm

what's the difference between a school and the houses where school children live and the routes in between them? Theyre all populated by school children. The only difference I see is that schools are regulated by crossing patrols.

on the education thing, I don't see how you could teach drivers to percieve the skills of others, especially vulnerable users like children. How can a motorists know if a child has seen a car and knows not to step into its path? Taking all drivers off the road and only let them back when they have achieved this skill would be comparable with the approach to safety in most other spheres, but could you see it ever happening?

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Re: Should CTC join campaigns for 20mph?

Postby rbrian » 25 Jun 2009, 6:56pm

When they first started putting 20 zones all over the place, I wasn't sure about them. Now that most of Aberdeen city centre, and all the residential areas (except the linking roads) in the city and the towns round about are 20 zones, I think it's brilliant. Cars no longer bother overtaking me when I'm doing 18mph, I can take the lane and ride with the traffic. It's safer, quieter, generally more pleasant, and it evens out the traffic flows, so it may even be faster overall - certainly it isn't any slower.
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Re: Should CTC join campaigns for 20mph?

Postby Tonyf33 » 25 Jun 2009, 7:49pm

Tom Richardson wrote:what's the difference between a school and the houses where school children live and the routes in between them?

there's a big difference, schools have hundreds of kids going in & spilling out the gates all at the same time in a very small area usually near to a main road. There are far more cars stopping/going/overtaking etc whilst been actively distracted.
I live on a 'housing estate' with 3 smaller infant/junior schools on it & one high school not far. The kids dont play near the main roads at all, usually down there own street & even in built up residential zones where there are few green spaces kids dont tend to play in mass groups anything like a school or near main roads with higher traffic rates.

Tom Richardson wrote:Taking all drivers off the road and only let them back when they have achieved this skill would be comparable with the approach to safety in most other spheres, but could you see it ever happening?


Where did I say take them off the road? Compulsary training in hazard perception needn't mean you have to stop driving but that you attend x amount of classes within x period of time.
No I dont expect it to happen because people can only see short term solutions that actually dont address the real problems.
been able to encourage more people to leave their cars to cycle to work involves so many other factors that will never happen, like building enough social housing so people dont have to move away & then commute longer distances to work.

In the Netherlands the approach to cyclists is massively different to ours. The facilities are other worldly compared to ours and 30mph car speeds become almost irrelevant.
http://www.ctcyorkshirehumber.org.uk/ca ... lities.htm
Sadly we in this country can only dream of cycle lanes like that.

Though not always getting it right.. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/w ... ry2009.htm
Last edited by Tonyf33 on 25 Jun 2009, 8:11pm, edited 1 time in total.

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paulah
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Re: Should CTC join campaigns for 20mph?

Postby paulah » 25 Jun 2009, 7:58pm

Tom Richardson wrote:what's the difference between a school and the houses where school children live and the routes in between them? Theyre all populated by school children. The only difference I see is that schools are regulated by crossing patrols.


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