Postmen sacked for no cycling helmet.

thirdcrank
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Postmen sacked for no cycling helmet.

Postby thirdcrank » 28 Jun 2009, 8:34pm

The Times, Saturday, 27 June, 2009

'Postmen sacked

'Three postmen have been sacked in the space of a week for not wearing cycling helmets and others have been warned. Royal Mail has been called "draconian" after the dismissals. A number of postal workers around Southport are fighting to be reinstated. Royal Mail said it took the safety of staff seriously, which was why cycle helmets were mandatory.'

(A news in brief item which does not seem to be in the online version to post a link.)

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Cunobelin
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Re: Postmen sacked for no cycling helmet.

Postby Cunobelin » 28 Jun 2009, 8:50pm

This was tried before, but HSE did not back the PO

A letter from HSE at the time is included on the CTC helmet guidance..

Dear Colin,

Thank you for your report on the effect cycle helmets have on cycle safety. Unfortunately HSE are able to offer you little help in this area as we only have responsibility towards cyclists while they are engaged in a work activity. These cyclists will represent a very small number of the total. HSE has no remit with regards to workers cycling to and from work. Furthermore cycle helmets used on the public highway are specifically excluded from the Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) at work regulations. This means that it would be very hard for an employer to force an employee to wear a cycle helmet on health and safety grounds, they will however be free to require employees to wear cycle helmets as part of their uniform.

HSE has no remit to dictate the uniform policy of a company unless it falls within the scope of PPE. Ultimately the wearing of cycle helmets is a matter on individual choice, any stance to the contrary could potentially be challenged on human rights
grounds. With regards to the use of cycle helmets on the public roads by members of the public, this is a policy area that falls totally within the remit of the Department for Transport.

Yours,
Jon Windeatt
Health & Safety Executive
Safety Policy Directorate
Workplace Transport & Special Hazards Section.

30 Sept 2002



This meant that the workers were reinstated, as there was no grounds for dismissal - it will be interesting to see if the same happens again

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braz
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Re: Postmen sacked for no cycling helmet.

Postby braz » 30 Jun 2009, 8:53am

But why don't the PO make their van drivers wear helmets? - in vehicle accidents head injuries are responsible for most deaths.

Stupid politically correct middle managers - start worrying about things that matter to your business!

regards to all, Braz.

askeans
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Re: Postmen sacked for no cycling helmet.

Postby askeans » 30 Jun 2009, 12:39pm

If the PO belives that cycles helmets help they will add to the uniform policy. They can then dismiss these employees for failure to follow this policy. To prove it was an unfair dismissal the emps will need to demonstrate that this was infact an unreasaonable policy.

I suggest that the PO makes people wear helmets as it will attract bad PR if they don't (whether they should attract the bad PR is of course a different matter)

johncharles
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Re: Postmen sacked for no cycling helmet.

Postby johncharles » 30 Jun 2009, 1:46pm

I don't see any problem with this at all even though I don't wear an helmet all the time myself.

Where I work we have to wear safety shoes all the time in the labs even though most of the time I myself am in very little danger of anything dropping on my feet.

It is a condition of employment so I go along with itand it is no hardship.

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CJ
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Re: Postmen sacked for no cycling helmet.

Postby CJ » 30 Jun 2009, 2:35pm

johncharles wrote:I don't see any problem with this at all even though I don't wear an helmet all the time myself.

Where I work we have to wear safety shoes all the time in the labs even though most of the time I myself am in very little danger of anything dropping on my feet.

It is a condition of employment so I go along with itand it is no hardship.


However it IS a hardship to wear a helmet when cycling, especially when the bike is weighed down with heavy bags of post and especially when it's as hot as it is today!
Chris Juden
One lady owner, never raced or jumped.

askeans
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Re: Postmen sacked for no cycling helmet.

Postby askeans » 30 Jun 2009, 2:40pm

CJ wrote:
johncharles wrote:I don't see any problem with this at all even though I don't wear an helmet all the time myself.

Where I work we have to wear safety shoes all the time in the labs even though most of the time I myself am in very little danger of anything dropping on my feet.

It is a condition of employment so I go along with itand it is no hardship.


However it IS a hardship to wear a helmet when cycling, especially when the bike is weighed down with heavy bags of post and especially when it's as hot as it is today!



Is it really?

I cycled 30 mile round trip today with panniers suit 2 pairs of shoes wet towel swimming kit laptop 3 files etc (i.e. a load not disimilar to a postie I'm guessing.

It was hot but was it a hardship with the helmet? - didn't notice if it was to be honest.

kwackers
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Re: Postmen sacked for no cycling helmet.

Postby kwackers » 30 Jun 2009, 2:44pm

askeans wrote:panniers


Plural? You know it's easier to cycle with just the one? Less wind resistance...

Funnily enough a guy I know here in Warrington who's a postman reckoned they'd come to a deal that says whilst they HAD to wear an helmet they didn't have to fasten it...

johncharles
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Re: Postmen sacked for no cycling helmet.

Postby johncharles » 30 Jun 2009, 3:00pm

Is it really cj
Last edited by johncharles on 6 Jul 2009, 10:15am, edited 2 times in total.

workhard

Re: Postmen sacked for no cycling helmet.

Postby workhard » 30 Jun 2009, 5:21pm

kwackers wrote:Funnily enough a guy I know here in Warrington who's a postman reckoned they'd come to a deal that says whilst they HAD to wear an helmet they didn't have to fasten it...


might not be a deal as such but they all stream out of our local sorting office straps akimbo and usually come back with the helmet on the bars or in the rack.

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hubgearfreak
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Re: Postmen sacked for no cycling helmet.

Postby hubgearfreak » 30 Jun 2009, 5:41pm

askeans wrote:I cycled 30 mile round trip today with panniers suit 2 pairs of shoes wet towel swimming kit laptop 3 files etc (i.e. a load not disimilar to a postie I'm guessing.


their bags are c.16kgs, that's the same as my tent, cooker, washkit, tools etc.....everything for a week or two away. added to this that they've got a 3-speed gas pipe bike with stainless steel rims and bombproof tyres, that they need to stop, dismount, remount, re-accelerate to cruising speed several hundred times a day means it's not comparable. you've also chosen to wear your helmet and chosen which one, as you did to the rest of your attire. those poor chaps are forced to wear polycotton trouser, acrylic jumpers etc - generally cheap & hardwearing work clothes.

having done the job for a bit, i know that you're guessing wrong

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Cunobelin
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Re: Postmen sacked for no cycling helmet.

Postby Cunobelin » 30 Jun 2009, 6:36pm

Now, sacking them for using single panniers - that I can understand!

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hubgearfreak
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Re: Postmen sacked for no cycling helmet.

Postby hubgearfreak » 30 Jun 2009, 9:49pm

johncharles wrote:I don't see any problem ......Where I work we have to wear safety shoes all the time



that's quite different. they've been proven to work.
if an object sees that your wearing safety shoes, they don't land nearer to your feet.
if an object does land on your feet, the shoe doesn't twist your ankle

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Re: Postmen sacked for no cycling helmet.

Postby SilverBadge » 30 Jun 2009, 11:45pm

braz wrote:But why don't the PO make their van drivers wear helmets? - in vehicle accidents head injuries are responsible for most deaths.

Stupid politically correct middle managers - start worrying about things that matter to your business!

From the Second Review of the Government's Road Safety Strategy
229.
Head injuries resulting from contact with the internal structure of the vehicle remain a
significant issue.

Whilst people continue to (wrongly) believe that cycling is the only activity in which one can sustain a head injury this sort of nonsense will persist. If helmets become part of the uniform then all posties will have to wear them at all times. Including the managers.

askeans
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Re: Postmen sacked for no cycling helmet.

Postby askeans » 1 Jul 2009, 9:09am

hubgearfreak wrote:
askeans wrote:I cycled 30 mile round trip today with panniers suit 2 pairs of shoes wet towel swimming kit laptop 3 files etc (i.e. a load not disimilar to a postie I'm guessing.


their bags are c.16kgs, that's the same as my tent, cooker, washkit, tools etc.....everything for a week or two away. added to this that they've got a 3-speed gas pipe bike with stainless steel rims and bombproof tyres, that they need to stop, dismount, remount, re-accelerate to cruising speed several hundred times a day means it's not comparable. you've also chosen to wear your helmet and chosen which one, as you did to the rest of your attire. those poor chaps are forced to wear polycotton trouser, acrylic jumpers etc - generally cheap & hardwearing work clothes.

having done the job for a bit, i know that you're guessing wrong


I accept it was a guess (hence I said it was!) but the weight is about the same - and by the sounds of it our bikes are very similar!

I also accept that our trips are different (but with London red liights I too stop start crusie stop strat etc (with less getting off.)

Of course it's not the same nor do I claim it to be but is it so far apart not to have some validity to compare - I don't think so.