E-Petition: 3 Feet 2 Pass

PW
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Re: E-Petition: 3 Feet 2 Pass

Post by PW »

The Highway Code used to state 6'-0" minimum back in mediaeval times when I took my test. That should be reinstated.
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drsquirrel
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Re: E-Petition: 3 Feet 2 Pass

Post by drsquirrel »

I got this "message" in a facebook group.

I also partially disagree with it, 3ft is a little low... although the argument for not making it 6ft is that some places there isn't enough room for 6ft... I already know there are places (enough of them) that doesn't have enough space for 3ft!

And I just worry that our rubbish government will turn this into some black and white line that avails any driver of any vehicle of any liablity, or they will just lie "THEY SWERVED OUT INTO ME".



Honestly, if there is enough room on the other side of the road for a car (2 lanes in other words), the car should pull into the opposite lane, completely... if there is a car in that road, they shouldn't pull into it AT ALL. Isn't it handy... having a line there to guide the overtake ;)





ps. Why 3ft, aren't we educated enough to use metric now... (I know I know, its the Americans faults).
thirdcrank
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Re: E-Petition: 3 Feet 2 Pass

Post by thirdcrank »

Am I missing something? The current Highway Code rule 163 says, in part:-

give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car


and after years of campaigning, this now includes a pic of a driver leaving an entire lane to a cyclist being overtaken. Are we now seeking to reduce that to three feet, just because it makes a slogan?
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Re: E-Petition: 3 Feet 2 Pass

Post by reohn2 »

thirdcrank wrote:Am I missing something? The current Highway Code rule 163 says, in part:-

give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car


and after years of campaigning, this now includes a pic of a driver leaving an entire lane to a cyclist being overtaken. Are we now seeking to reduce that to three feet, just because it makes a slogan?


Exactly! and further more people are signing the petition thinking they're serving the best interests of cyclists :? !!!!!!!!
I sometimes wonder if they are living in some parallel universe somewhere that magicaly all will be well if three feet or one metre is the law, when some of the pratts driving around at the moment can't give me one foot or 310mm let alone three or one metre!
All part of lifes rich and colourful tapestry,albeit a tapestry getting more than a leettle thread bare when I see propsals such as these.
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orbiter
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Re: E-Petition: 3 Feet 2 Pass

Post by orbiter »

Why isn't there a facility on the No 10 petitions for people to say NO! This is Rubbish! Or at least 'I don't agree'. Perhaps it needs a petition....

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Tigerbiten
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Re: E-Petition: 3 Feet 2 Pass

Post by Tigerbiten »

It gets even more fun if you take section 129 of the highway code into account.

"Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.

[Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26]"

If I'm travelling at speed (+15mph) on my recumbent trike, I take primary so my outside wheel is a good 5' from the edge of the carriageway, so anything overtaking me has to cross the white line.
I still get cars overtaking on solid double white lines, normaly around blind bends.
I didn't think it was legal.
How easy would it be to get the drivers done for it ??
Any takers on a helmet cam showing your speed and the drivers actions ??

Luck ........... :D
niggle
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Re: E-Petition: 3 Feet 2 Pass

Post by niggle »

thirdcrank wrote:Am I missing something? The current Highway Code rule 163 says, in part:-

give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car


and after years of campaigning, this now includes a pic of a driver leaving an entire lane to a cyclist being overtaken. Are we now seeking to reduce that to three feet, just because it makes a slogan?


Can anyone be prosecuted for breaking a Highway Code rule that is not a law in the absence of aggravating circumstances?
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Re: E-Petition: 3 Feet 2 Pass

Post by niggle »

orbiter wrote:Why isn't there a facility on the No 10 petitions for people to say NO! This is Rubbish! Or at least 'I don't agree'. Perhaps it needs a petition....

Pete


Precisely, if all those who think we should campaign for a bigger passing gap just keep on grumbling on internet forums (fora?) then they have nothing to complain about. I would happily sign up to an E-Petition asking for 1.5m if someone has the gumption to go ahead and do it.
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Re: E-Petition: 3 Feet 2 Pass

Post by niggle »

Tigerbiten wrote:It gets even more fun if you take section 129 of the highway code into account.

"Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.

[Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26]"

If I'm travelling at speed (+15mph) on my recumbent trike, I take primary so my outside wheel is a good 5' from the edge of the carriageway, so anything overtaking me has to cross the white line.
I still get cars overtaking on solid double white lines, normaly around blind bends.
I didn't think it was legal.
How easy would it be to get the drivers done for it ??
Any takers on a helmet cam showing your speed and the drivers actions ??

Luck ........... :D


I also see this one quite often, I could be doing 30mph (down hill :oops: ) and still cars will overtake by crossing a solid white line, but TBH if the pass is safe and there is no danger of an accident with oncoming traffic I see no point in 'grassing' on them. It seems like the solid white lines are marked on the basis of a car with the acceleration, speed and braking power of a Morris Minor and a carefully driven modern car does not require anything like the same distances to perform a safe overtake. However to close to, or on, a blind bend is different of course and a helmet cam clip ought to be able to show that.

With regards to the speed you are travelling, if you are thinking a cycle computer, calibrated by the owner, could provide evidence I think you are mistaken, but if the offence is serious enough to interest the police (probably only if someone is seriously injurd or killed :roll: ) then speeds can be calculated by analysing the movement of the camera against the background plus also the movement of any vehicle against the background to calculate its speed, I believe.
thirdcrank
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Re: E-Petition: 3 Feet 2 Pass

Post by thirdcrank »

Some interesting assertions. AFAIK the only thing special about speeding prosecutions is that the uncorroborated opinion of one witness as to speed is insufficient to prove an offence. On that basis, a cycle computer which had been properly checked against a measured mile ought to be enough corroboration. In practice, it's never going to be the basis of a prosection for speeding but, if the vehicle crossing the white collided with one coming the other way (the very thing double white lines are intended to prevent) then a cyclist's evidence that they had been riding at a certain speed - corroborated by their reading of a speedo - would IMO be excellent evidence. Unfortunately, the likelihood is that faced with such a collision, the offending driver would swerve back across the double white line and wipe out the cyclist. I've posted before that there is an arrangement like this near here on a dowhnill blind bend. Your granny would freewheel at 30+ mph. Overtaking drivers cross the double lines with impunity, and swerve back just as quickly.

FWIW, I do not think there is any likelihood that the CPS would run a prosecution for a single incident of crossing a double white line, even if it were to be captured on video and a collision occurred - it's the momentary lapse of driving standards thing. You would need one of those reality TV police chase videos, preferably shot from a helicopter with evidence of repeated bad driving.
reohn2
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Re: E-Petition: 3 Feet 2 Pass

Post by reohn2 »

FWIW I've set up a petition for a new law that makes it illegal for motor vehicles to overtake a cyclist with less than 5ft (1.5metres) clearance.
I'm waiting for approval from Drowning Street, when its approved I'll inform the forum,hope you will support it :)
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johncharles
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Re: E-Petition: 3 Feet 2 Pass

Post by johncharles »

5 ft , you have got to be joking, Why do you need that amount between you and motorists. :roll:
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orbiter
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Re: E-Petition: 3 Feet 2 Pass

Post by orbiter »

reohn2 wrote:FWIW I've set up a petition for a new law that makes it illegal for motor vehicles to overtake a cyclist with less than 5ft (1.5metres) clearance.
I'm waiting for approval from Drowning Street, when its approved I'll inform the forum,hope you will support it :)


Great. Just what we need:
Confused messages from cyclists to government :cry: (Lucky they don't take any notice)
Yet another unenforceable law :roll: !

As I said, it needs a publicity campaign, not another law, to put the message across to drivers that they should give cyclists plenty of space. Rather than a petition to No. 10 it might be more effective to get CTC to front a campaign for a publicity campaign. Governments are more likely to buy into this than into pointless and contentious legislation.

No, of course we don't always need 5 feet. In Holland I often get a few inches from a very slow car, with no problem. But 1.5m or 5ft is pretty well consistent with the HC and a good target.
reohn2
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Re: E-Petition: 3 Feet 2 Pass

Post by reohn2 »

johncharles wrote:5 ft , you have got to be joking, Why do you need that amount between you and motorists. :roll:


So your happy being passed at 50mph with 1ft to spare(or maybe less)? I think its you who must be joking :? !
Last edited by reohn2 on 26 Oct 2009, 6:29pm, edited 1 time in total.
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reohn2
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Re: E-Petition: 3 Feet 2 Pass

Post by reohn2 »

orbiter wrote:
reohn2 wrote:FWIW I've set up a petition for a new law that makes it illegal for motor vehicles to overtake a cyclist with less than 5ft (1.5metres) clearance.
I'm waiting for approval from Drowning Street, when its approved I'll inform the forum,hope you will support it :)


Great. Just what we need:
Confused messages from cyclists to government :cry: (Lucky they don't take any notice)
Yet another unenforceable law :roll: !



I quite agree,but if the silly three feet rule were to get 500,000 yes hits from the people who think its a good idea and the government picks up the ball,we(cyclists) are snookered behind that same ball.
But if my five feet rule petition gets 600,000 yes hits we're back where we started.
This is an unenforcable law without doubt(3 ft or 5ft) but know which I'd rather see as law and it ain't 3ft(914mm)!
I'm under no illusions as to the use of petitions such as these.

As for the CTC fighting to get the relevent Highway code rule on the statute books I wouldn't hold my breath,the hierachy won't bite the hand that feeds them.
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