So what do Europeans think of cycling in the UK?

[downfader]

Not much, it seems

[thirdcrank]

Whatever next? First they're watching out telly without a licence, then they're using our cycling facilities without so much as a please or thank you. That's not what we fought two world wars for.

[kwackers]

Whatever next? First they're watching out telly without a licence, then they're using our cycling facilities without so much as a please or thank you. That's not what we fought two world wars for.

Even worse, he'll return home with his newly acquired combat cycling skills and no doubt pass them on to others...

[garybaldy]

I thought WE were european!

[reohn2]

I thought WE were european!

Some people think were are civilised but hey there goes another misconception

[downfader]

I thought WE were european!

Not according to UKIP

[Cyclenut]

He's right.

I occasionally have business in Germany and always try to fit in a little cycling around those trips. Don't get me wrong, I also enjoy cycling in Britain, but it's altogether less stressful over there, so I can appreciate exactly where he's coming from. When I come home it is indeed a rude awakening.

WW2 has been flippantly referred to by some above. It is my opinion that being on the right side in that conflict has made us disgracefully complacent. Having once occupied the moral high ground, we British arrogantly presume a permanent tenancy. Not so. The moral high ground is a place that is hard to attain and easy to slip down from. We have slipped a very long way.

Germans on the other hand, were defeated and forced to confront the dark side of human nature, to press their faces into the stinking consequences. It's made succeding generations extremely careful of how they treat vulnerable minorities.

[reohn2]

He's right...................
....................WW2 has been flippantly referred to by some above. It is my opinion that being on the right side in that conflict has made us disgracefully complacent. Having once occupied the moral high ground, we British arrogantly presume a permanent tenancy. Not so. The moral high ground is a place that is hard to attain and easy to slip down from. We have slipped a very long way.

Germans on the other hand, were defeated and forced to confront the dark side of human nature, to press their faces into the stinking consequences. It's made succeding generations extremely careful of how they treat vulnerable minorities.

How very right you are,we (like the USA) have a very bad moral standing in the world today due to our lack of humility,and down right arrogance,not mention our treatment of minorities.

[pq]

Curiously, last year when I rode around the far NW of Scotland, the two near scrapes I had with drivers cutting too close were Germans in camper vans. Just a co-incidence I know, but a weird one.

The letter isn't the first time I've read that sort of thing and it doesn't suprise me in the least. I don't buy into all this stuff about differing national characters - Germans are just used to cyclists and most have ridden bikes themselves. If that applied in the UK, we'd get treated better.

[CJ]

I don't buy into all this stuff about differing national characters - Germans are just used to cyclists and most have ridden bikes themselves. If that applied in the UK, we'd get treated better.

Different national characters isn't what I'm selling. I think people are the same the world over: the same human natures with the same mix of moral strengths and weaknessess, virtues and vices. But different cultures work differently in the way they reward or punish various aspects of human nature.

It seems to me that Anglo-American social norms and laws, whilst excellent in some other areas, do too little to discourage the tendency of the powerful to bully the powerless. The way motorists are allowed to bully cyclists and pedestrians is but one manifestation of this flaw in our society, and far from the most serious one.

It's not just a matter of there being more people on bikes in Germany, there are also fundamental differences in the way their laws treat collisions between motor vehicles and more vulnerable road users. Those legal principles reinforce a view that it is the duty of a driver not merely to be careful, but to do everything in his power to stop his car running into people, rather than it being the duty of people to keep out of his way.

But just as this forum is full of cyclists saying how much less stressful it is to ride in Germany, it is a certainty that driving in Britain will be discussed by German caravanners!

[james01]

Curiously, last year when I rode around the far NW of Scotland, the two near scrapes I had with drivers cutting too close were Germans in camper vans. Just a co-incidence I know, but a weird one.

.

This was probably the left hand drive syndrome, where the driver can gauge the gap on his left hand side with more accuracy because he's sitting there. The same effect applies to Brit drivers abroad, which probably explains their reputation for passing Brit cycle tourists too closely. This doesn't excuse it, it's still a shock when someone drives too close.

[asterix]

Agree with cyclenut about Germans. I live in France quite a few months of the year and this week visited Oradour-sur-Glane again. Surprisingly it's clear that Germans also visit this site of a Waffen SS atrocity.

Whilst I enjoy aspects of life in both England and France, France wins hands down when it comes to courtesy to cyclists. Outside of August, I find French driving is generally much less agressive anyway.

[George Riches]

France wins hands down when it comes to courtesy to cyclists. Outside of August, I find French driving is generally much less agressive anyway.

Something to do with a legal requirement to give 1.5m clearance when passing cyclists?

[kwackers]

Something to do with a legal requirement to give 1.5m clearance when passing cyclists?

I'd eat my old running socks if making minimum distance a legal requirement actually made an iota of difference. (Unless of course it was actively policed! As if...)
Combining it with education and making an attempt to change peoples perception would although I don't see much in the way of driver education here in the U.K...)

[George Riches]

I'd eat my old running socks if making minimum distance a legal requirement actually made an iota of difference. (Unless of course it was actively policed! As if...)
Combining it with education and making an attempt to change peoples perception would although I don't see much in the way of driver education here in the U.K...)

Don't studies show that trying to improve the behaviour of people so that they pose less of a risk to other people has little effect?

Policing of such a law would make a difference. But the fact that if a crash did occur and it could be shown that the driver was attempting to overtake with less than 1.5m clearance (e.g. less than 2.0m from the kerb) he/she wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on, would also make a difference.