Pedal lite SHE (daytime running lights for cyclists)campaign

SA_SA_SA
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Pedal lite SHE (daytime running lights for cyclists)campaign

Postby SA_SA_SA » 20 Dec 2009, 1:19pm

http://www.pedalite.com/she.aspx seem to campaigning for compulsory Daytime lamps on bikes, instead of banning them on cars etc...

Somebody stop them...

PW
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Re: Pedal lite SHE (daytime running lights for cyclists)campaign

Postby PW » 20 Dec 2009, 5:19pm

Marketing hype, ignore it.
If at first you don't succeed - cheat!!

tali42
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Re: Pedal lite SHE (daytime running lights for cyclists)campaign

Postby tali42 » 20 Dec 2009, 7:39pm

:roll: A beautiful illustration of the fact that you can't sell dubious "safety" equipment to someone without scaring the crap out of them first.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Pedal lite SHE (daytime running lights for cyclists)campaign

Postby Cunobelin » 20 Dec 2009, 8:35pm

Pretty much the same as helmets, Thudguards and other "safety equipment"

Dealing with the victim and making them responsible for the accident.

A driver should be able to see a cyclist in good daylight and there is no excuse...... unless as this hype suggests you did not have lighting and the accident and ensuing injury is therefore your fault.

Then there are the two flaws... firstly have these guys actually been to the UK?

Just how much solar charge would the average commuter lights have received over the last few weeeks?

Secondly - just how "fit and forget" is a shoulder system like this?

Image

pwward
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Re: Pedal lite SHE (daytime running lights for cyclists)campaign

Postby pwward » 23 Dec 2009, 12:55pm

How about we email them saying we won't buy any of their products until they stop this type of alarmist victim blaiming?

I've sent mine in:

Hello Pedalite,

Your SHE campaign has been highlighted on the CTC’s discussion pages.

You will see that many of us view this sort of campaign as alarmist, verging on the ‘victim blaiming’ characteristic of some sections of the press. It doesn’t sit well with the last few paragraphs on you web page presenting cycling as safe.

I do not think I could bring myself to buy products from a company using this type of advertising and hope you might consider your strategy.

Yours,

Dr Peter Ward

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Re: Pedal lite SHE (daytime running lights for cyclists)campaign

Postby Pedalite » 23 Dec 2009, 2:49pm

Hello Peter and all others here
My name is Simon and I work with Pedalite. Peter kindly emailed me about this message thread and I am delighted to have the opportunity to answer some of the points raised.
Our SHE campaign is intended to raise awareness of various safety issues that have all been raised to Pedalite in the past by our customers and other cyclists. As a cyclist myself, I know full well that many accidents are not the cyclists fault and the campaign in no way tries to indicate that it is a cyclists fault for not being seen. However, in the same way that if you walked onto a level crossing when the barrier was up and saw a train coming you would get out of the way and not say "well its not my fault! the barrier was up" and get hit, it is important for cyclists to make themselves as visible as possible, even if it is only to attract the attention of certain poor motorists that are distracted, talking on a phone or just not paying enough attention. We also advocate wearing bright clothing, using other lights not just ours and offer various safety advice in the SHE campaign and throughout our site.
The point about lights being on during the day on motorcycles and this being something cyclists should consider was actually first raised to me some time back by the editor of a large cycling magazine (and no I am not going to mention names on this post), it has since been raised time after time to me and comments about shadows, bridges, clouds, etc have all been cited by cyclists as good examples. Many times I have been given real customer feedback about the fact that they purchased our products to address this very problem. We included this information about daytime lights to make people consider it and I am delighted that you are discussing it. If discussing this, raising awareness of it and possibly having some cyclists then choose to wear lighting during the day saves just one life then it is worth it.
Regarding some of the other points raised in this discussion:
"have these guys actually been to the UK? Just how much solar charge would the average commuter lights have received over the last few weeeks?"
Pedalite’s Baglite and Ankle/Armlite products are a great British invention from a UK company that are now exported to over 45 countries. The challenges of poor natural lighting in the Winter here is one of the reasons we went to so much trouble to use advanced energy harvesting that recharges the units from ordinary household lights when the products are left lying around during the day. In fact the products never need to see sunlight to stay fully charged although bright sunshine will speed up the recharge.
The "fit and forget" comment in the SHE campaign is in a statement regarding the pedal lights and we have had numerous customer comments regarding the benefits of the pedal lights coming on automatically and that users have benefited through fitting and forgetting the products and then not needing to remember to turn lights on or realise that they are out without lights.
Once again, thank you for allowing me the opportunity to address these points, I am not going to try to turn this into a sales pitch by commenting on the other great features of the products, however, if you have follow up questions I will try to address these or you can email me privately just at Peter did.
Thank you and Merry Christmas
Simon, Pedalite International

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frank9755
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Re: Pedal lite SHE (daytime running lights for cyclists)campaign

Postby frank9755 » 24 Dec 2009, 9:24am

Had a quick look at the website and the only thing I could think of was...

'Christmas lights for cyclists!'

Ironic that one of pedalite's other products appears to be a cycling jersey in urban camouflage design

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Re: Pedal lite SHE (daytime running lights for cyclists)campaign

Postby downfader » 25 Dec 2009, 1:33pm

Well.. Simon's post was a nightmare to read due to its formatting :? I digress..

My opinion is that that is a solution to a problem that doesnt exist. If a driver does not look then no amount of light (or position of light) is going to make them. I already ride with 3 front (two with very good side vis) and three rear (again two with very good side vis). I wear the flouro/hiviz reflectives and my cycle is covered in reflective stickers.

I still get pulled out on.

I also feel the orange light in the pedal will confuse others into thinking it an indicator and increase risk.

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Si
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Re: Pedal lite SHE (daytime running lights for cyclists)campaign

Postby Si » 28 Dec 2009, 3:49pm

My opinion is that that is a solution to a problem that doesnt exist.


I'd go further to suggest that it creates a new problem....as has already been noted; starting a lighting 'arms race' means that drivers will become attuned to looking for exceedingly brightly lit cyclists, leaving those that are not as bright but still perfectly legally lit to be missed. Once everyone has the product being promoted and it's noticed that it does nothing to reduce incidents, the makers will, no doubt, produce a more powerful version that leaves all those with the original feeling 'left in the shade' and causing another round of having to buy the latest kit to keep up. Great marketing move, poor safety move.

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Re: Pedal lite SHE (daytime running lights for cyclists)campaign

Postby downfader » 28 Dec 2009, 4:13pm

Si wrote:
My opinion is that that is a solution to a problem that doesnt exist.


I'd go further to suggest that it creates a new problem....as has already been noted; starting a lighting 'arms race' means that drivers will become attuned to looking for exceedingly brightly lit cyclists, leaving those that are not as bright but still perfectly legally lit to be missed. Once everyone has the product being promoted and it's noticed that it does nothing to reduce incidents, the makers will, no doubt, produce a more powerful version that leaves all those with the original feeling 'left in the shade' and causing another round of having to buy the latest kit to keep up. Great marketing move, poor safety move.


And then those loopy drivers who write to local papers will start thinking these are a legal requirment as they do with hiviz, reflective clothing and helmets LOL :lol:

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Re: Pedal lite SHE (daytime running lights for cyclists)campaign

Postby Pedalite » 31 Dec 2009, 12:40pm

I am delighted that this topic has created discussion and debate. The intention of the SHE campaign is do just this; raise awareness and have more people consider certain safety issues.

One thing to clarify is that Pedalite are not currently campaigning for or advocating any new laws or changes to laws. The comparisons to motor cycle lights being the law in many countries is to make people think why it is a law in those countries and how this is inconsistent to cycling laws. The SHE campaign is an awareness campaign and highlights issues and concerns raised by real cyclists in multiple countries.

Given the amount of accidents that happen at road junctions, where cyclists need to be seen from the side, it is good to hear that downfader has already considered this and has lights with very good side lighting. As you would expect our SHE campaign uses Pedalite’s lights as examples throughout, however, one of the purposes of the campaign is to have people think about the need for side-lighting. While there are only a very limited selection of products specifically designed to give good side lighting available there are, of course, others that can be used. Pedalite may consider ours better because they do not use batteries and that will save the user money over time, help protect the environment and batteries do not run out at inappropriate times. However, we fully confess to and am sure all readers will expect a bias on this subject.

I would like to assure the participants on this forum topic that we do not wish to “start an arms race for lighting” or “create a solution to a problem that does not exist”. We receive many letters/emails from cyclists stating our products have helped them, praising the need for them and providing anecdotal evidence of their effectiveness. One topic, amongst many others, we receive considerable feedback on is that the pedal lights define the width of a cyclist to motorists that approach from behind and that these motorists then give the cyclists a wider berth than when the cyclist rides without the pedal lights. So, clearly, there is a positive impact from using these.

The reason for the orange light on the side of the pedal lights is also simple. There are laws in the UK that govern the colour of lights, flash rate and luminosity. Pedalite products have been designed to comply with these laws (amber on the side and no encumbrance of the reflector) which is why they are also used by some police forces and other emergency services in the UK.

Using lights in the day remains a personal choice, our view and that of many of our customers and people that write to us is one view, other views, such as some expressed on this forum are different and it is excellent that an open and full discussion can be held on a forum such as this. It is interesting that the poor and changeable daytime light that there has been in the UK in the past few weeks was referenced in the earlier post by Cunobelin.

Thank you for the opportunity for this discussion to take place, I am sure many people read this and if it makes people think, take some action and then saves an injury or accident (regardless of if they choose Pedalite products or not) then the SHE campaign will be achieving its objectives.

A happy and safe new year to all
Simon Theobald, Pedalite International

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Re: Pedal lite SHE (daytime running lights for cyclists)campaign

Postby Regulator » 31 Dec 2009, 1:27pm

Sorry Simon (from Pedalite) but this campaign of yours is simply a marketing ploy that panders to the worst sort of ant-cyclist prejudice that is spouted in downmarket newspapers. It is sensationalist, in poor taste and the sort of thing that will drive cyclists away from you.

If I were you I'd have a serious rethink about promoting such a tacky campaign.

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Si
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Re: Pedal lite SHE (daytime running lights for cyclists)campaign

Postby Si » 1 Jan 2010, 5:45pm

I see that they are going down a storm (not) elsewhere ( http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28075.0 ) too.

bodach
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Re: Pedal lite SHE (daytime running lights for cyclists)campaign

Postby bodach » 3 Jan 2010, 2:54pm

There is a recent report about a driver who hit an oncoming cyclist whilst overtaking another vehicle at Bridge of Orchy last September at 0900hrs.His excuse was that the cyclist had no dayglo clothing and also (at 9.00am) no lights.Did'nt do him much good tho' as he still got fined but only 6 points on his license.

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Re: Pedal lite SHE (daytime running lights for cyclists)campaign

Postby Tony » 5 Jan 2010, 2:48am

I have posted this before but.....edited.
Summer. Noon. Bright sunlight. Fluorescent yellow shirt. Car driver nearly hits me.
"Sorry....butchu dint ave no lights on"
Pedalite,do you remember your own comments about clipless pedals? No? Please go away.
I am doing my best to be polite....


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