BeautyandtheBike

[Philip Benstead]

Have you seen this http://www.youtube.com/user/BeautyandtheBike

Thought provoking

[richardyorkshire]

Intriguing to hear the German girls so surprised at motorists shouting abuse at them for riding a bike. Can we infer this is something that only happens in Britain?

[mill4six]

Had to watch it twice, wasn't really listening the first time

[reohn2]

I've said on here many times,we in the UK have a serious social problem across our society not just concerning cycling.
It stems IMHO from a lack of consideration for other people in our society caused by a lack of self discipline and self respect and respect for others,it is allowed in our schools from a very young age,and on the street by a lack decent policing,and by allowing an element of society to be answerable to no one.
Consider why anyone in a car would wish to shout abuse at someone just because they choose cycle(something which has happened to me and also to one of the German girls in the film),its quite bizzare,there is no thought attached to it other than the motorist being in a position of strength and reletive anonimity so from this postion feel they can bully and abuse others.
Bullying is part of everyday life for the cyclist in this country whether blantant or implied,to stop it in its tracks the boot needs to be on the other foot,motorists need to be held responsible for their actions with regard to vulnerable road users(VRU) whether they be cyclists,pedestrians,horse riders,or motorcyclists,with the law loaded in favour of the VRU.
For that to happen the law would need to be changed and then enforced which means a police force that means business and a judicial system to back it up,something which IMO is sadly lacking at the moment.
This country is IMO not serious about lawbreaking,but more interested in cooking the books to make things look good,we are constantly told serious crime is decreasing when the whole of the populous knows thats a blatant lie,lesser crime is ballooning IMO.
As with terrorism its a fact that there is a real possibility that something terrible may happen whilst simply cycling and that feeling is made worse by the fact should anything happen, no one cares enough to bring the culprit to justice and see to it that they don't do it again.
This state of affairs is, IMO a UK phenomina,I feel far safer when cycling on the contintent,but one only has to spend a short time there to realise that our problems aren't just confined to the roads,

[7_lives_left]

One of our priorities is congestion. The new environmental policies that are
coming in, that are being forced in, rather than... in the mind, in the head of...
'this what we should be doing'. It's a way of looking. For years now the first
priority has been transport and cars. Now we have reversed that and looked
at it from people who want to walk and cycle.
.
.
.
There are big problems and when I took up cycling again I had a fear of
certain area of road, of highway, and I still do.
.
.
.
We tried to get Leisure back into it to get people confident to go cycling
along the river and areas away from transport and I think that gives people
confidence to go on the roads, but there is an awful lot to do on the roads
themselves to make cyclists happier to be on the roads.
.
.
.
What we have done in Darlington is put an emphasis on alternative routes.
Now some of the hardline cycling campaigners think, no you shouldn't be doing
that, it should be on the roads. I don't believe it, I don't believe that and it
hasn't happened that way. We give confidence back into people who used to
cycle and who don't cycle now. And the reason that that has happened is that
there are an awful lot of more alternative routes to get the confidence back and then
you can use the roads.

I am not sure that I transcribed that 100% accurately, apologies to Mr Lyonette
for any mistakes.

[dave holladay]

Yep that was premiered and noted in Newsnet last year (November IIRC)

[Pete Owens]

One of our priorities is congestion.

Translation - Dave's real priority is to organise Darlington's roads to achieve , maximum motor vehicle throughput at the expence of all other considerations.

The new environmental policies that are coming in, that are being forced in,

Unfortunately for Dave, he has realised that in order to bid for funds he has to at least pretend to care for vulnerable road users.

rather than... in the mind, in the head of... 'this what we should be doing'. It's a way of looking. For years now the first priority has been transport and cars.

Note the presumption:
cars = transport
cycles = toys

Now we have reversed that and looked at it from people who want to walk and cycle.

Unless it is those campaigning types who get ideas above their station and think that they might want to actually get somewhere.

There are big problems and when I took up cycling again I had a fear of certain area of road, of highway, and I still do.

So Dave, perhaps you could have a word with the cabinet member responsible, he could point out to his engineers that he expects them to design highways to take account of the needs of all road users, not just motorists.

We tried to get Leisure back into it to get people confident to go cycling
along the river and areas away from transport

Ah, but you are the cabinet member responsible - and your priority is congestion and you don't want all those walkers and cyclists getting in the way of all the important traffic.

and I think that gives people confidence to go on the roads,

No, it does the opposite - it gives them the idea that cyclists do not belong on the road .
But just in case anyone should be tempted...

but there is an awful lot to do on the roads themselves to make cyclists happier to be on the roads.

A situation which you will no doubt ensure continues.

Hey, you could even make a film emphasising how nasty the roads are - just to make sure you scare off those who might be encouraged by those those hardline types to get in the way of all that transport.

What we have done in Darlington is put an emphasis on alternative routes.

Translation - go ride somewhere else.

Now some of the hardline cycling campaigners think,

So when you say you have "looked at it from people who want to walk and cycle" you mean that you have "dismissed anyone who wanted to cycle anywhere" as an extremist.

no you shouldn't be doing that, it should be on the roads. I don't believe it, I don't believe that and it hasn't happened that way.

Translation... why can't these cyclist types understand that roads are for cars and their toys belong in parks.

We give confidence back into people who used to
cycle and who don't cycle now. And the reason that that has happened is that
there are an awful lot of more alternative routes to get the confidence back and then
you can use the roads.

I am not sure that I transcribed that 100% accurately, apologies to Mr Lyonette
for any mistakes.

I think you have given a pretty good account of his views.

[7_lives_left]

I don't agree with Mr Lyonette either, but I thought it would be poor
taste for me to quote him then "stick the boot in" (*) . But I am glad to have
gained my credentials as a "hardline cycle campaigner". I wonder if any
of the women featured in the film who had motorist shouting at them
heard a "get on the cycle path"

Edit: * especially as he is not present on this forum to answer back.
Pete Owens, I like the dissection.

[Les Reay]

Some quotes from the girls from Bremen:

As a cyclist, it came as something as a shock to me
We don't feel safe here, that's for sure... it means taking risks ...
One guy wound down his window and screamed at me ...

I've lived close to Bremen for most of the last 8 years and I can see why it was such a shock for them. I cycle every day here and I've never experienced any aggression from drivers in all that time. I returned to Britain for 6 months last year, hoping to continue using the bike as primary means of transport. In the first few weeks I experienced complete strangers screaming abuse at me, cars overtaking at high speed with minimal distance and once, a front-seat passenger leaned out and threw fluid in my face.

And then I read hate-filled intolerance directed at cyclists like in the current Daily Mail thread. What is it about the British that makes them so aggressively hostile to cyclists? When I returned to Germany at the end of last year, it was like coming back to civilisation.

[workhard]

And then I read hate-filled intolerance.....

What is it about the British that makes them so aggressively hostile.....?

It is nothing intrinsic about cyclists as targets. Nor anything intrinsic about drivers as perps. Some of whom fall into both camps. If it wasn't us cyclists it would be some other minority.... look at the way many cyclists collectively sneer at 4WD drivers.

We are increasingly a nation of angry, bad-tempered, aggressive, over stressed, overdrawn, over tired, self centered, self justifying, unreasonable numpties whose fundamental premise in life appears to be "everything in this country is pants". Thus we look for victims upon whom to vent our considerable self-righteous spleen. Cyclists, collectively, are a handy target with a tendency to come across a bit 'holier-than-thou' in the eyes of Mr Grumpy thus rendering themselves the perfect target of his ire when he needs to scream "I HAVE HAD ENOUGH!" at someone.

[Les Reay]

Maybe, but somehow it seems worse in Britain compared to other countries.

[workhard]

Maybe, but somehow it seems worse in Britain compared to other countries.

I agree 100%. and my experience confirms it. Being rude, or worse, to strangers and constantly complaining about how rubbish everything is and asking why does no one do anything about it is the new "British Disease".

[Les Reay]

In a couple of hours, I'll cycle to the Irish pub, leaving my bike alongside about 20 others outside. I'll feel safe on the road, even though it will be dark and minus five degrees. The bike will still be there when I come out a pint or two later. Drivers will take care when they overtake and will treat me with respect. Why can't I expect similar treatment in the UK?

[reohn2]

In a couple of hours, I'll cycle to the Irish pub, leaving my bike alongside about 20 others outside. I'll feel safe on the road, even though it will be dark and minus five degrees. The bike will still be there when I come out a pint or two later. Drivers will take care when they overtake and will treat me with respect. Why can't I expect similar treatment in the UK?

Because you are living in a civilised country where people care for others,in the UK people don't.For cycling the UK is the worst country I've cycled in,in Europe,but as has been said it isn't just cyclists, we've become the uncivilised sick man of Europe.The problem is a social one across the board,rich or poor,the UK is a sick society.

[Les Reay]

The odd thing is that if you manage to get the abusive and bullying driver away from his car, you'll often find that he is a pillar of society, plays with his kids, will do anything for you type of person. Maybe the strain of being decent all the time is too much for many. I suspect, though, that the difference in driver behaviour between the UK and other countries may be because the law hits drivers on the continent hard when they transgress. Another factor is probably that many drivers here are themselves cyclists.