help me, i've a bee in my bonnet

johncharles
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Re: help me, i've a bee in my bonnet

Postby johncharles » 7 May 2010, 9:54am

This is no different to thousands of other driveways which cross a pavement.

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Si
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Re: help me, i've a bee in my bonnet

Postby Si » 7 May 2010, 10:29am

I've a slightly similar, but possibly reversed, problem on a local cycle path - it emerges from a park onto a shared use pavement to take the cyclists let to a toucan (or is it a pelican - can never remember which is which?). Problem is that the cyclist has to go tight to the high fence and hedge on the left to go past a gate. This means the the cyclist can't see what is coming along the pavement from the left, and those on the pavement can't see the cyclists coming out of the park. On the other side of the hedge is a nursery/creche type business - so lots of small kids around, and prams pushed forward across the entrance.

In the ideal world* cyclists would come to a stop, look around the corner and check that it was clear. And the peds would have tight control on their kids and not push their prams into the 'danger zone'. But this isn't the ideal world and so both are going to continue to act as before. The simple solution is to move the gate so that cyclists pass it on its right hand side, thus allowing them to see a distance up the pavement that they are emerging onto, and allowing the pavement users to see the approaching cyclists. I have suggested this to various people at the council, but as the gate separates park from pavement it appears that it is always someone else's responsibility, and even if someone does suggest that it is their's then it's on a cyclepath so no money has ever been allocated for maintenance or further work.

Rather than hitting my head against a brick wall I have decided to start hitting my head agin the gate - this has more chance of moving it than asking those who put it there does!

* no such thing as an unsafe road/pavement/cyclepath - just unsafe ways to use them.

mw3230
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Re: help me, i've a bee in my bonnet

Postby mw3230 » 7 May 2010, 11:05am

hubgearfreak wrote:
1. that i remove the fun and freedom that cycling affords my child
2. that i not chat to other parents whilst walking home from school
3. let the might is right brigade win control of not only the roads but the footpaths too

:(


Having just watched hours of politicians 'spinning' I see that you too interpret other peoples points of view in a way that best suits you. I did not suggest that you either stop your child having fun or that you cease talking, merely that you get the balance right and ensure the safety of a child cycling along the footpath crossed in places by motor vehicles. It is essential that children get to school safely but not imperative that they cycle there. If you have doubts about the safety of the route then perhaps it may be wise to reconsider.
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rualexander
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Re: help me, i've a bee in my bonnet

Postby rualexander » 7 May 2010, 2:48pm

GrahamNR17 wrote:
rualexander wrote:How does this differ from any of the other millions of pavements throughout the country? What's so special about this case, have I missed something in the scenario?

Just because similar dangers exist to toddlers in other areas, doesn't detract from this one. The only difference is someone wants to put their foot down and say "enough!" and do something about it.


This is ludicrous. If someone wants their child to cycle along pavements then they have to ensure that the child is in sufficient control and can recognise that vehicles may be coming out of exits and driveways. If not then the child should be under greater control, reins or something similar perhaps.

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Re: help me, i've a bee in my bonnet

Postby GrahamNR17 » 7 May 2010, 3:19pm

rualexander wrote:
GrahamNR17 wrote:
rualexander wrote:How does this differ from any of the other millions of pavements throughout the country? What's so special about this case, have I missed something in the scenario?

Just because similar dangers exist to toddlers in other areas, doesn't detract from this one. The only difference is someone wants to put their foot down and say "enough!" and do something about it.


This is ludicrous. If someone wants their child to cycle along pavements then they have to ensure that the child is in sufficient control and can recognise that vehicles may be coming out of exits and driveways. If not then the child should be under greater control, reins or something similar perhaps.

And what about the partially sighted? Elderly in electric buggies? Ordinary bloke with an iPod in his ears? To suggest it's acceptable for blind vehicular access across footpaths is what's ludicrous.

larfingravy
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Re: help me, i've a bee in my bonnet

Postby larfingravy » 7 May 2010, 3:44pm

This is ludicrous. If someone wants their child to cycle along pavements then they have to ensure that the child is in sufficient control and can recognise that vehicles may be coming out of exits and driveways. If not then the child should be under greater control, reins or something similar perhaps.

And what about the partially sighted? Elderly in electric buggies? Ordinary bloke with an iPod in his ears?To suggest it's acceptable for blind vehicular access across footpaths is what's ludicrous.


But in this case the vehicular access across the footpath isn't blind. The vision is a lot better than many other driveway entrances.

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hubgearfreak
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Re: help me, i've a bee in my bonnet

Postby hubgearfreak » 7 May 2010, 9:01pm

larfingravy wrote:But in this case the vehicular access across the footpath isn't blind. The vision is a lot better than many other driveway entrances.


you're possibly right. but if you look at the OP, you'll see from the satelitte pic that theres a large car park attached to this drive. the motorists come belting out of there :evil:

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hubgearfreak
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Re: help me, i've a bee in my bonnet

Postby hubgearfreak » 7 May 2010, 9:17pm

GrahamNR17 wrote:And what about the partially sighted? Elderly in electric buggies? Ordinary bloke with an iPod in his ears?


thanks graham, there's also a snapped brake cable on a childs bike to worry about. if the cars came out slowly and did so whilst being observant, as per HC, there'd be no problem, as it is, there's a risk of serious injury or death to someone.

i'm after constructive help such as links to documents from DFT, local government & etc.
all i want to happen is some appropriate and effective traffic calming. frankly, it beggers belief that the thought of that offends some CTC members so much, especially as most of you offendees are unlikely to visit vets in lincoln :shock:

anyhow chaps, if you feel that there's no problem, simply ignore the thread. a row won't help anyone. 8)

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Swizz69
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Re: help me, i've a bee in my bonnet

Postby Swizz69 » 7 May 2010, 10:14pm

Found this in minutes on Google & your local authority prob states the same on their website. A mate of mine had to reduce the height of a fence for the reasons stated within because it bordered an access road.

cjchambers
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Re: help me, i've a bee in my bonnet

Postby cjchambers » 8 May 2010, 10:25am

Hubgearfreak,

I've got some planning documents that may be of interest to you, although they relate to a slightly different issue. In a nutshell, the current owner of my late grandfather's house was refused retrospective planning permission to erect a garden fence on the grounds that it was a danger to himself and users of the A350. The 'appeal decision letter' is the most interesting one.

http://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/environment ... tation.htm

dave holladay
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Re: help me, i've a bee in my bonnet

Postby dave holladay » 10 May 2010, 12:46am

Riding a cycle on a footway regardless of your age you should be aware that speeds above walking pace are incompatible with the safe use of that footway. Young children should be made aware of this if they are being encouraged to ride on the footway - by the time my kids were that age we rode on the carriageway wherever possible and if they were riding alongside me (on a busy road) using the footway, they slowed and waited to pass pedestrians.

That said the comments on visibility splays are very relevant and the entrance does seem to be set up to deliver a potential crash between an emerging vehicle and a pedestrian. A letter to the developer/management of the property pointing out the hazard and asking that they acknowledge its receipt and contact you if they require any clarification of the points you raise about the hazard, may well get action to reduce the wall heights or highlight the need to yield to pedestrian traffic. However make a fuss about your 5 year old riding at speeds above walking pace on the footway and you'll get your arguments (even if they have some justification over the poor sightlines) shot down in flames.

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drsquirrel
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Re: help me, i've a bee in my bonnet

Postby drsquirrel » 14 May 2010, 9:49am

GrahamNR17 wrote:I thought the whole idea is that little'uns can ride on the path, and are expected to. Isn't it only kids over 12 that aren't allowed to ride on the path? I believe it's a law.


I think they aren't allowed to, but you cannot ticket them under a certain age either... (can anyone confirm this?)


dave holladay wrote:Riding a cycle on a footway regardless of your age you should be aware that speeds above walking pace are incompatible with the safe use of that footway.


Does this apply to jogging/running?

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hubgearfreak
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Re: help me, i've a bee in my bonnet

Postby hubgearfreak » 14 May 2010, 12:06pm

drsquirrel wrote:Does this apply to jogging/running?


indeed, and what about old folks on their mobility scooters?
in fact please clarify what the speed limit is on pavements for children that they may be safe from going under a range rover whose driver isn't looking and assumes that it's everyone elses duty to keep out of their way

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Cunobelin
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Re: help me, i've a bee in my bonnet

Postby Cunobelin » 14 May 2010, 1:51pm

rualexander wrote:
This is ludicrous. If someone wants their child to cycle along pavements then they have to ensure that the child is in sufficient control and can recognise that vehicles may be coming out of exits and driveways. If not then the child should be under greater control, reins or something similar perhaps.



This is ludicrous. If someone wants their car to cross pavements then they have to ensure that the driver is in sufficient control and can recognise that users on the footway have right of way and priority. If not then the driver should be under greater control, straitjacket, reins or simply not allowed to drive perhaps.