Bicycle Tax

[hubgearfreak]

when a motorist shouts at me, on the road or in a forum, "You don't pay road tax", I can shout back "."

i can imagine this roadside debate.

motorist pulls out out of give way, forcing cyclist to halt rapidly

cyclist "OI"
motorist "You don't pay road tax"
cyclist "But I pay extra VAT"
motorist "your bike appears to have been made before jonty's VAT hike on cycles and their accesories was introduced"
cyclist "ah, well, yes, but i've bought a new saddlebag for it since."
motorist "so you're claiming rights to the road on the basis of a purchase of a few pounds?"
cyclist "this is all getting a bit pythonesque, don't you think, let's both just continue on our journies tutting, shall we?"

[snibgo]

I think I'll reduce my posting and do more cycling.

I should do the same.

I love the Pythonesque debate.

[[XAP]Bob]

I'm coming round to the view that perhaps my idea wasn't such a good idea after all. I think I'll reduce my posting and do more cycling.
jonty

Arguments need to be tested every so often to see if they still hold true.

I think this one still holds, but we were all just assuming that before this thread

[reohn2]

Jonty

When are you going to realise that its not the cyclists who are at fault in the "you don't pay your taxes" debate,its an element of motorists not all but an element,the element that think no one else is allowed on the road but them,not even other motorists.
I once had a heated "debate" with a motorist,a spotty yoof in a small h/back,who's opening line was "who do you think you are,do you think you own the road" he was quite surprised when I introduced myself(so he would know who I was)and informed him that I did indeed own the road along with everyone else who paid taxes.
The poor misguided lad was under the impression that he owned the road,how could anyone be that deluded and yet be allowed to drive? Unfortunately he isn't alone,there are others!!!!!!!!
So lets get it straight,all tax paying residents of the UK own the roads but some are deluded,its upto the Government to put these poor people right their delusion,not reinforce it by making others pay taxes they aren't due to pay!

[Jonty]

Reohn 2 - I probably own more of the road than most people as I've payed so much tax!
jonty

[basingstoke123]

Nuts.

Shop keeper: Are those nuts (for use with bolts, not by squirrels) for use on a cycle?
Cyclist: Yes, Why?
Shop keeper: in that case, there's an extra 5% VAT
Cyclist: oh! ah, actually, I only need one of the nuts in the bag. So, that would be 5/6 = 0.83%

Shopkeeper: And that pad lock and chain - is that also for you cycle?
Cyclist: no - it's for my garden gate. I know it's not really suitable, but it will do for the time being until I can find something better. Then I will transfer it to my cycle (second hand transfers don't have VAT).

There should be lots of scope for 'dual use' cycle technology. Cycle seats with an adaptor to (potentially) use with a walking stick? Would cycles sold for use with an exercise machine avoid the extra 5%? I foresee a big trade in LBS' doing package deals: cycle + exercise adaptor (and a healthy trade in buying unused exercise adaptors).

A different aspect: if you had a cycle tax disk, would pavement only cyclists need a tax disk? Many pavement cyclists would assume not!

[reohn2]

Reohn 2 - I probably own more of the road than most people as I've payed so much tax!
jonty

To say that is to make the same mistake as motorists,you wouldn't own more as it belongs to all, equally.
I find that the UK suffers from the "exclusive" problem,you're either in or out,I much prefere an inclusive society.
The church sufferss similarly,saved or not saved,clubs(most),cliques,etc,etc.
Its usually a division denoted by money or to be more acurate the lack of it,percieved or actual.The have's and have nots,a problem which is one of power facilitated by the power that money buys,a sickening society, which we have become.

[Jonty]

You may be interested to know why I decided to change my mind on this. My suggestion was basically that cyclists pay an extra tax like motorists and motorcyclists so that they would be seen to do so and thereby help to change attitudes towards cyclists amongst some motorists and some sections of the media.
This idea was probably flawed because as Reohn 2 has pointed out it's only some motorists who are anti-cycling and, on reflection, cycling generally seems to get a good press although there are a few exceptions.
I wasn't suggesting that the monies raised would have to be used for cycling projects or that monies from general taxation allocated to cycling and related works should be stopped.
The suggestion was predicated on ease of collection. I thought that any cycling tax would have to be modest so a licence say from the Post Office was out of the question because the administration costs could swallow most of any revenue generated by the tax and of course the licence could be forged.
I therefore settled on an increase in VAT on cycling products as I thought this would be easy to collect. Cycling goods would simply be set at 25% automatically on shop computers and that would be that.
Flinders however had a different story based on running a small business which I could not ignore. He pointed out that many LBSs were not eligble for VAT and the othes would face a nightmare in trying to collect it.
Given its limited applicabilty, difficulty in application and flawed conception, I decided to abort.
jonty

[reohn2]

Jonty
You still miss the point by a mile,you may want think on this,whats right is right and whats wrong is wrong,even if it were the majority of motorists that thought(mistakenly) that cyclists should pay a tax to be on the road,they would still be wrong and wrong can't be bought to make it right!!!!!

[snibgo]

I agree with you, reohn2, but I sometimes wonder what would happen if a political party took a hard stance: cyclists must be trained, tested and insured. To ensure this happens, cyclists must display a circular disk. To pay for the admin, there is a charge for the disk. In all but name, this is a tax disk.

I fear this might be popular among many motorists.

Remember, we only recently narrowly avoided having to pay £100 each (plus billions by the state) for the privilege of being British.

[George Riches]

"On loads of money being spent on cycling facilites" ....
Cyclenation, the federation of UK cycling campaign groups reported in its March 2010 newsletter that in England, outside the cycle spending hotspots, an average of 70p per head per year is spent on cycle specific facilities.

Assuming about 50% of the population have a bicycle (alas stuck in the shed). That's about £1.40 per cyclist per annum.

Where I live the bulk of spending is on Cycle Training for school pupils (I try my best to block schemes consisting of white paint on pavements / carriageways). Should children be taxed to pay for their education?

[thirdcrank]

I wonder if this thread is all down to a misunderstanding? The other evening I was half listening to the Six O'clock Speculation (AKA news on Radio 4) when I thought I heard that the country was under the threat of 'a tax on computers.' I had more or less accepted that on the basis that the so-and-soes will tax anything they can think of when I realised that the threat was 'attacks on computers' from extremists.

I think the mistake here has been over the introduction of 'road tacks' as a way of discouraging cycling. As is so often the case with new projects, it has been subject to a locally-based pilot trial.

[Edwards]

I wonder if this thread is all down to a misunderstanding? The other evening I was half listening to the Six O'clock Speculation (AKA news on Radio 4) when I thought I heard that the country was under the threat of 'a tax on computers.' I had more or less accepted that on the basis that the so-and-soes will tax anything they can think of when I realised that the threat was 'attacks on computers' from extremists.

I think the mistake here has been over the introduction of 'road tacks' as a way of discouraging cycling. As is so often the case with new projects, it has been subject to a locally-based pilot trial.

Absolutely fantastic Chapeau to You TC the best thing I have read in weeks.

[bovlomov]

TC has hit the nail on the head (so to speak), but with his first observation rather than his last.

'Attacks on cyclists' (as already promoted by Paris, Clarkson et al.) would surely help motorists feel better about themselves. Something which I think we can all support.

[reohn2]

................I think the mistake here has been over the introduction of 'road tacks' as a way of discouraging cycling. As is so often the case with new projects, it has been subject to a locally-based pilot trial.

Thanks TC for putting us all right in what is clearly a big misunderstanding (on my part atleast), it needed a sharp mind to get to the point of it all,and after me banging on,and missing the head it so to speak,it now sticks out like a sore thumb where we all went so wrong.