"The Government Can't Stop People Driving Badly"

[cjchambers]

. . . . well, that's what Philip Hammond, Secretary of State for transport thinks. He used those exact words on the BBC2 Jeremy Vine show this afternoon!

Discuss!

[meic]

He is probably right for once.
He could have been more correct if he said "we are not even going to try to stop bad driving as we think it will make us lose the next election."

[snibgo]

In the literal sense, he's right, of course. Nor can the government stop people thieving, burglaring or murdering. But they can discourage all these activities.

And they can discourage bad driving, even when it doesn't actually break any laws.

If he actually means, "We don't care about bad driving", that would be different. I doubt he would admit to that.

[reohn2]

The government can't stop people driving badly,but they can minimize it.At present, with a distinct lack of police presence and by all accounts that presence about to become even less,add to that the paltry sentences handed down, and it seems the government's objective is to maximize bad driving IMO.

[NUKe]

They can provide education they can police things properly and they can bring in laws to remove licences from People who don't obey the rules. So there is lots they can do to stop people driving badly. More appropriate testing would be a start. Retesting there are lots of things the government could do instead of seeking votes 4 years away from the next election.

[thirdcrank]

This just seems to show how poorly-informed Vine is. An interviewer with all his chairs at home would have asked if he had heard of Leslie Hore-Belisha or Barbara Castle. (I don't listen to his irritating programme so perhaps he did. )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Hor ... re-Belisha
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Ca ... _Blackburn

I'm not suggesting that either of them eliminated bad driving, otherwise we'd not be having this discussion, but they did have a jolly good go. Among their achievements are the general 30mph speed limit in built-up areas (HB) and making the experimental 70mph national limit permanent (BC.) There's also the breathalyser (BC) and driving tests and zebra crossings (HB)

I think we'd have to agree that the the majority of the numerous holders of the transport portfolio have achieved very little and have collectively been pretty forgettable - the only other one I can remember off the top of my head was the rather dodgy Earnest Marples and I suppose there was whatsisname who got mixed up with Railtrack who was so keen to tell everbody he was not a liar*. . While I've been typing I've remembered Ruth and her £147M for cycling. (Has anybody here seen Kelly or the £147M?)

In another interview, Hammond frankly explained that if it hadn't been for the formation of the coalition, he would have been a Treasury Secretary, so Transport was a bit of a consolation prize. In the same interview he was pretty keen to stress his credentials as a driver - as in 'owns several big cars.' Robin Day's here today, gone tomorrow comment comes to mind.

* I was struggling to remember his name then I remembered that it rhymes with 'liars.' Quite a good mnemonic.

[snibgo]

But who could forget "Two-Jags" Prescott? Possibly for the wrong reasons, of course.

[SilverBadge]

I'm not suggesting that either of them eliminated bad driving, otherwise we'd not be having this discussion, but they did have a jolly good go. Among their achievements are the general 30mph speed limit in built-up areas (HB) and making the experimental 70mph national limit permanent (BC.) There's also the breathalyser (BC) and driving tests and zebra crossings (HB)

They haven't been trying for quite a while now. From the Second Review of the Government's Road Safety Strategy

"9. As is perhaps expected, the results above show that driver behaviour continues to contribute significantly to casualty numbers.

31. Analysing types of accidents demonstrates that there has been an increase in the accidents involving bad driving behaviour - for example, an increase in single-vehicle car accidents caused, among other things, by loss of control. This is not to say, however, that activities for improving driver behaviour are failing; it is likely that the statistics would show a worse trend if not for these measures. Quantifying this, though, is very difficult."

The NAO did precious little to hold them to account
"Fifty-two of the 152 English local areas included at least one of these indicators [road safety targets - two out of a list of 35] as a statutory target in their 2008-2011 agreements."
In other words two thirds had NO road safety targets - where is the criticism over this?

In another interview, Hammond frankly explained that if it hadn't been for the formation of the coalition, he would have been a Treasury Secretary, so Transport was a bit of a consolation prize. In the same interview he was pretty keen to stress his credentials as a driver - as in 'owns several big cars.' Robin Day's here today, gone tomorrow comment comes to mind.

And in May he said "For 20 years I have said to my wife I'd love to be Transport Secretary. Like everybody else I've sat in traffic jams and said, 'If I was Secretary of State I'd sort this out'.
Also "Yes, I like driving," he confessed. "I don't much like driving in London but I do like it out on the open road."
And ". . . the Transport Secretary is keen to reassure the public that he is no "petrolhead", and that he takes safety and the environment deeply seriously. His car [Jaguar XJ diesel] was "the greenest in its class" when he bought it.
"I'm not a fan of Top Gear... My children say I drive like an old man." But he does not seem keen on walking to work, pointing out that his Horseferry Road ministerial office, half a mile from the Commons, is "a good 10 minutes' hoof" to Westminster Tube station.
Since his appointment, Mr Hammond has been picked up by a government driver in a Honda Civic from home in Pimlico, a 30-minute walk from his office. Could he cycle in? "I've never actually cycled in London," he said. "I'd have to take a deep breath. I think you need to know what you are doing to cycle in London."
The married father of three, 54, wants cycling made safer. "Cyclists need to be more aware of the risks around them. It frightens me to death when I see them pull out around other cyclists, completely unaware there is a car behind. Maybe they need wing mirrors."

* I was struggling to remember his name then I remembered that it rhymes with 'liars.' Quite a good mnemonic.

I've been intending to hassle not-quite-sure-who about the complete lack of rebuttal to common misconceptions and petrolhead rubbish. Wondering whether I can attribute remarks to "the likes of Clarkson and Hammond" and when they assume the remark is Richard (Top Gear) Hammond, point out I was quoting Philip the Transport Secretary.

[thirdcrank]

But who could forget [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Prescott]"....

I do try very hard. I don't think he really counts as a Secretary of State for Transport. When so-called New Labour came into power in 1997, they had a carve up. Tony was in charge of strutting the world stage; Gordo was i/c creative accounting; Blunkett looked after grass-roots populism; Mandy ran the Ministry of Truth and that left just about everything else to Prezza. Although the 'Department of State for the Environment, Transport and the Regions' sounded mighty impressive, it should have been obvious that it was just the ragbag of stuff that Tony and Gordon thought was worth only lip-service. Kyoto? Regional assemblies? And the biggy for cyclists - The Notional Cycling Strategy? You might laugh if it didn't make you cry. After each bit of that empire had either been quietly forgotten or shuffled off to somebody else, he was left with little more than a big brass plate on the door saying Office of the Deputy Prime Minister. I've even read in the papers that he only had one member of staff under him. Apparently even the Memorial Bus Lane will be ceremonially axed by Hammond after the Olympics.

(I almost forgot that one of the Cronies also had a big empire: head of the judiciary, secretary of state for justice in all but official title, speaker of the House of Lords and general tourist attraction with his own dressing-up box. All a bit like something out of The Mikado.)

[BSRU]

I watched a motorway traffic Police programme last night and it was disappointing how lenient they are on very bad drivers.
One example, a guy was pulled over on the motorway for not having his kids secured, four kids but only three seat belts, the driver seemed upset that the Police were wasting his time on such a minor issue. The Police wanted him to drive to the nearby service station where the situation could be dealt with more safely. The Police repeatedly explained to the driver to gain speed upto 60mph, indicate and pull in a a safe gap and that he must not just put the indicator on and pull back onto the motorway. The driver gets in the car, indicates and pulls straight out in front of a large lorry which had to slam it's brakes on causing lorries behind it to do the same, fortunately a major crash was just avoided. The driver's only punishment for almost causing a major motorway pile up was a fine for £30 and a course on how to drive better.

[ANTONISH]

I'm enjoying this thread particularly Thirdcrank's apposite and very amusing commentaries.
On occasion I've also watched these traffic police programmes. Even outrageous behaviour just seems to warrant a mild reprimand and a pat on the head from a smiley policeman. Perhaps police should be less tolerant as the French Police are?
My only moving traffic offence occurred when I didn't come to a complete halt at a stop sign (the road I was entering was empty both ways and there was clear visibility.) The white van behind me put on it's blue light and I pulled over thinking it was on the way to an emergency. I was soon disabused by the unsmiling police officer and his boot faced companion. I had to follow him to the police station and pay a 90euro fine. No complaints -them's the rules.
A similar fine was leavied on an acquaintance because he had a bungy cord hanging from a roof rack. I believe this is a regular occurence for errant French motorists.
SMIDSY could see you in very serious trouble.
But we don't want a war on motorists here do we?

[Tonyf33]

Well after reading the sad case of Dan Black in the latest edition of cycleclips via the Stop Smidsy website it appears the CPS are doing everything in its powers to ensure that bad/outrageous driving is not punished at all! Sick beyond belief really. http://www.stop-smidsy.org.uk/case-stud ... stow-21209

[kwackers]

The driver gets in the car, indicates and pulls straight out in front of a large lorry which had to slam it's brakes on causing lorries behind it to do the same, fortunately a major crash was just avoided. The driver's only punishment for almost causing a major motorway pile up was a fine for £30 and a course on how to drive better.

I saw that, what I found particularly "amusing" was nobody mentioned the fact that the lorries where so close together that when one braked hard the following lorry almost jackknifed. Lorries frequently travel just feet apart on motorways and nobody seems to do or say anything, yet in the event of an 'event' happening there's suddenly going to be a number of 40 tonne vehicles with little or no control contributing to the mayhem.

[reohn2]

Well after reading the sad case of Dan Black in the latest edition of cycleclips via the Stop Smidsy website it appears the CPS are doing everything in its powers to ensure that bad/outrageous driving is not punished at all! Sick beyond belief really. http://www.stop-smidsy.org.uk/case-stud ... stow-21209

Which is another example of the prejudice against cyclists in this country,I've in the past likened it to the racial prejudice suffered by black people in southern US states during the '60's,I've no reason to change my mind.

[snibgo]

Cyclists aren't the only victims.

A motorist sufficiently blind that he didn't see a woman in a mobility scooter and her carer, drives into them both, killing one and injuring the other. He admits causing death by careless driving. He is sentenced to, umm, three points on his licence.

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/arti ... woman.html

It's a licence to kill. We should be grateful that few motorists take advantage of this.