HS2

Stevek76
Posts: 510
Joined: 28 Jul 2015, 11:23am

Re: HS2

Postby Stevek76 » 15 Dec 2017, 11:37am

Mick F wrote:It just so happened that I had my Garmin 705 with me and I recorded the journey and was absolutely amazed and surprised that we were doing 140+ mph. Not only that, but it was smooth and quiet and beautiful. A real treat. :D

However, looking out of the window, the countryside had been spoilt. The track was ugly and surrounded by forbidding fencing. I found it very sad indeed that that such a wonderful transport system was so horrible to look at - and live near too.


Seems that the fencing is a newer network rail standard/requirement and would be found on a new line even if it was only 125mph. It should be noted that other countries do not feel the need to fortify their high speed rail in such a manner. The french TGV and Japanese Shinkansen lines look pretty much like standard electric train lines, just a bit straighter.

I'd rather railways than motorways...

Stevek76
Posts: 510
Joined: 28 Jul 2015, 11:23am

Re: HS2

Postby Stevek76 » 15 Dec 2017, 11:41am

Actually is the HS2 fencing going to be like HS1? Various 'artists impressions' around suggest not.

Is HS1 thus because it's essentially an international border all the way to London?

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 10374
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: HS2

Postby mjr » 15 Dec 2017, 12:25pm

Stevek76 wrote:It should be noted that other countries do not feel the need to fortify their high speed rail in such a manner. The french TGV and Japanese Shinkansen lines look pretty much like standard electric train lines, just a bit straighter.

Are you sure about that? The TGV approaches to Lille and Lyon seem to be fenced in the countryside and often lined with big walls in urban areas, except where they're on viaducts so high up it would be an achievement to climb up there. Even the regular lines seem to have at least post-and-wire fencing most of the way, which many of our rural lines don't.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

old_windbag
Posts: 1868
Joined: 19 Feb 2015, 3:55pm

Re: HS2

Postby old_windbag » 15 Dec 2017, 12:44pm

When canals were built they were huge civil engineering projects with massive manpower. The effort was worthwhile and took our transport system to a different level. Then railways came and again it was a huge project to create embankments, tunnels, bridges etc. As both of these transport systems were at their dawn we were starting from scratch.

So why not with HS2( if it has to happen? ) create it to be fully underground in prefabricated tunnel sections laid like a pipe then covered so we don't see any of it, other than perhaps the odd tunnel access point. It could be made very safe, perhaps even running in a sealed low pressure system to allow high speed with pressurised train cabins as with an airliner.

If we're going to do the next big thing then lets do it to be invisible on the landscape and at speeds the world has never seen. We set the bar in the past we should set it again now.

I personally don't feel we need HS2 at present as I feel it's just to benefit londoners to move out to further afield with same commute time but making money by moving to cheaper areas. So pretty cynical about it, but when we choose to do such for the benefit of the uk I feel we should go that extra step to a serious advance in train travel.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 10374
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: HS2

Postby mjr » 15 Dec 2017, 1:21pm

old_windbag wrote:So why not with HS2( if it has to happen? ) create it to be fully underground in prefabricated tunnel sections laid like a pipe then covered so we don't see any of it, other than perhaps the odd tunnel access point.

Because at least up to the edge of Leicester, the scar has already been made by the GCR and is now mostly vacant and many of the occupiers are the sort of opportunist barns often erected on only railway land, but only the southern half (to Mixbury near Brackley, south Northants) is going to be reused, which seems strange to me. The GCR was built to the larger European loading gauge, even the long Catesby Tunnel, so seems an obvious choice.

GCR's weakness, that it didn't go through many places, is actually what HS2 is doing even more so. Diversions around the few places the GCR served would seem like most of what would be needed.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

Steady rider
Posts: 2074
Joined: 4 Jan 2009, 4:31pm

Re: HS2

Postby Steady rider » 15 Dec 2017, 1:43pm

Perhaps a bit like Concord, cost a great deal, can be made, but not really good value for money.

old_windbag
Posts: 1868
Joined: 19 Feb 2015, 3:55pm

Re: HS2

Postby old_windbag » 15 Dec 2017, 2:01pm

To be honest in our small country I'd rather see more integrated transport( air,rail,bus/coach,car,bike, boat ) system accommodating easy travel by bike too. I don't find it that amenable at present. Also by having more services travelling time may not seem as bad by having more opportunities in a given time window to get to where you are going. Run publicly not for profit, even loss if it is of benefit on the whole to society and gains us money in different ways elsewhere.

Then on top of that use technology to save us the effort of many journeys using video conferencing etc.

Steady rider
Posts: 2074
Joined: 4 Jan 2009, 4:31pm

Re: HS2

Postby Steady rider » 15 Dec 2017, 4:30pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... n-2016.pdf
29100 miles of A roads,
Assuming £30 billion was spent on cycle paths instead of HS2, should be sufficient to provide a cycle path along side all A Road Paths (ARP) in the UK. How would the cost benefit analysis compare for HS 2 v ARP ?

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 10374
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: HS2

Postby mjr » 15 Dec 2017, 7:18pm

Well, Chris Boardman seems to be claiming he'll get 5½ times returned on £1.5bn spend in Manchester, so let's use that. What's the benefit cost ratio for HS2?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

Steady rider
Posts: 2074
Joined: 4 Jan 2009, 4:31pm

Re: HS2

Postby Steady rider » 15 Dec 2017, 8:05pm

Using the standard approach, the point-estimate BCR of the whole network (including
Wider Economic Impacts) is estimated at 2.3.


http://assets.hs2.org.uk/sites/default/ ... case_0.pdf

Good cycling facilities would allow more people to cycle more often and the health benefits of cycling outweigh the risks. The assessed health benefits of cycling outweigh the risks by around 20:1 (one study put it at 77:1).

The cycling option would benefit practically all mainland parts of the country and could save some lives.

brynpoeth
Posts: 6846
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: HS2

Postby brynpoeth » 15 Dec 2017, 10:04pm

Quite a bit of the GCR is being used by steam trains now
Cycling? Of course, but it is far better on a Gillott.. Alternative facts welcome

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 10374
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: HS2

Postby mjr » 15 Dec 2017, 11:01pm

brynpoeth wrote:Quite a bit of the GCR is being used by steam trains now

I think only a fairly short stretch near Quainton Road on the southern half and the land seems flat enough there to divert around it. Most of the rails have been lifted north of there so there aren't steam trains.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

brynpoeth
Posts: 6846
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: HS2

Postby brynpoeth » 16 Dec 2017, 9:54am

mjr wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Quite a bit of the GCR is being used by steam trains now

I think only a fairly short stretch near Quainton Road on the southern half and the land seems flat enough there to divert around it. Most of the rails have been lifted north of there so there aren't steam trains.


Loughborough.. Nottingham!
Cycling? Of course, but it is far better on a Gillott.. Alternative facts welcome

Steady rider
Posts: 2074
Joined: 4 Jan 2009, 4:31pm

Re: HS2

Postby Steady rider » 16 Dec 2017, 10:01am

Could a government petition asking for HS2 to be cancelled at this time and HS 2 funding to be allocated to providing good quality cycle paths on all A roads gain support and request a cost analysis comparing the two option?

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 10374
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: HS2

Postby mjr » 16 Dec 2017, 10:52am

Anything could happen. I think you'd need to get one of the HS2 groups on side as well as CTC to make it likely.

brynpoeth wrote:
mjr wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Quite a bit of the GCR is being used by steam trains now

I think only a fairly short stretch near Quainton Road on the southern half and the land seems flat enough there to divert around it. Most of the rails have been lifted north of there so there aren't steam trains.


Loughborough.. Nottingham!

Yes but that's north of Leicester. Somebits are even still used by network rail.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.