Cycling banned in Cycle Town Woking

thelawnet
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Cycling banned in Cycle Town Woking

Postby thelawnet » 1 Apr 2011, 11:53am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-12908039
http://www.cyclewoking.org.uk/aboutus/n ... 03F76.0008

Cyclists in one of the UK's designated "cycling towns" are facing a daytime ban from the town centre.

They cited safety concerns, although the scheme has been operating without major incident for two years.

byegad
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Re: Cycling banned in Cycle Town Woking

Postby byegad » 1 Apr 2011, 12:01pm

There was discussion in Darlington, another 'Cycling town', about allowing cycling in the pedestrianised centre. They allowed it for a trial period and have extended this for a while longer.
The problem is that, while most cyclists slowed down in the area and were therefore safe and seen to be safe, others didn't and so 'buzzed' walkers. While there was probably no real danger of a collision the perception was of a close miss. So some groups, including one representing the visually impaired, were quite vociferous in their opposition.
A case of the bad few threatening the access of the many.

Now if only that worked for driving motor vehicles we would have lots of car free city centres!
"I thought of that while riding my bike." -Albert Einstein, on the Theory of Relativity

2007 ICE QNT
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Richard Mann
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Re: Cycling banned in Cycle Town Woking

Postby Richard Mann » 1 Apr 2011, 12:12pm

byegad wrote:The problem is that, while most cyclists slowed down in the area and were therefore safe and seen to be safe, others didn't and so 'buzzed' walkers.


They'll need enforcement if they ban it, so why not enforce the existing law (which requires cyclists to give way to pedestrians in pretty much all circumstances). Perhaps we need a specific offence of "buzzing" pedestrians so they can give out (exemplary) tickets for that.

TC: Is there any suitable offence that you can get a FPN for?

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horizon
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Re: Cycling banned in Cycle Town Woking

Postby horizon » 1 Apr 2011, 12:20pm

Woking, like dozens of other towns, hasn't been pedestrianised. This is a complete misnomer. In fact it's been fully motorized. The idea is that you drive (or take a bus) to the town centre, park and then walk a short distance to your shop (just like parking your car at home). So called pedestrianisation almost always involves a by-pass to speed up traffic and a huge increase in car parking (usually right beside, above or below the shopping centre) to allow this kind of access. What cyclists should do IMV is campaign for the complete reopening of the roads that were closed and the reinstatement of the pavements.
Let's just stay!

fimm
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Re: Cycling banned in Cycle Town Woking

Postby fimm » 1 Apr 2011, 12:42pm

I have not followed the links, but has anyone connected this with the date?
Of course it's a race...

byegad
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Re: Cycling banned in Cycle Town Woking

Postby byegad » 1 Apr 2011, 12:45pm

fimm wrote:I have not followed the links, but has anyone connected this with the date?


1st thing I checked. And the link is from the BBC dated 30th March. :D
"I thought of that while riding my bike." -Albert Einstein, on the Theory of Relativity

2007 ICE QNT
2008 Hase Kettwiesel AL27
2011 Catrike Trail
1951 engine

thelawnet
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Re: Cycling banned in Cycle Town Woking

Postby thelawnet » 1 Apr 2011, 1:24pm

horizon wrote:Woking, like dozens of other towns, hasn't been pedestrianised. This is a complete misnomer. In fact it's been fully motorized. The idea is that you drive (or take a bus) to the town centre, park and then walk a short distance to your shop (just like parking your car at home). So called pedestrianisation almost always involves a by-pass to speed up traffic and a huge increase in car parking (usually right beside, above or below the shopping centre) to allow this kind of access. What cyclists should do IMV is campaign for the complete reopening of the roads that were closed and the reinstatement of the pavements.


Indeed. You can drive everywhere.

For instance here:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sourc ... 56,,0,8.81

Just outside of two of Woking's pubs most associated with problem drinking, there is a road (a dead-end), which open 24 hours for the drunks to pick up/drive home from the pub, despite the presence of retractable bollards at the end of the road, which could easily be raised and lowered to allow deliveries but restrict the often dangerous maneuvers commited by drunken yobs going to the pub.

fimm
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Re: Cycling banned in Cycle Town Woking

Postby fimm » 1 Apr 2011, 1:56pm

byegad wrote:
fimm wrote:I have not followed the links, but has anyone connected this with the date?


1st thing I checked. And the link is from the BBC dated 30th March. :D


Oh.
I stand corrected.
Of course it's a race...

thelawnet
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Re: Cycling banned in Cycle Town Woking

Postby thelawnet » 1 Apr 2011, 2:41pm

horizon wrote:Woking, like dozens of other towns, hasn't been pedestrianised. This is a complete misnomer. In fact it's been fully motorized. The idea is that you drive (or take a bus) to the town centre,


The bus is merely a byproduct of the desire to expedite the private motor car. In reality in most areas of the country buses are only for the most marginal members of society.

For instance my friend's wife lives 18 minutes drive from Woking and, having failed her driving test 6 times, visits frequently, two kids in tow, pregnant with the third. In order to do this, she faces a 15 minute walk to the bus stop, then up to 2 hours wait for a bus (they are hourly, but might be early/cancelled), which takes 48 minutes and dumps her on the wrong side of a busy road near the train station. It's then another 15 minutes walk to get to the food court in the shopping centre

OTOH, by motor car you speed along a three-lane highway and up a private access road right into the shopping centre itself, where a lift (empty of course, being at the top, so plenty of room for the push chair) speeds you directly to the mall.

Incidentally I just went to Woking town centre. The police had driven a Mini Cooper up Wolsey Walk, a covered walkway, from which bikes (let alone cars) were already banned, and were giving it away in some contest. One of their coterie had also driven a dirty (civilian) hatchback into the Town Square, presumably because they were too self-important to walk 30 yards from a parking space in a non-pedestrianised area.

On my way home I was cycling along the 30mph limit road at 21mph and was overtaken around a bend with poor visibility by a full-length Mercedes Citaro bus reg X432KON. Inevitably given the amount of traffic on the road, a car was coming the other way around the bend, and I was forced to brake out of fear of it knocking me off as it hurried back in, and was further emperilled by the shock when I realised that I was at my right-turn and I needed to brake and signal with a 4x4 immediately behind me. Oh what fun it is to leave in one of Britain's 'cycle towns'.

bigphil
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Re: Cycling banned in Cycle Town Woking

Postby bigphil » 6 Apr 2011, 12:16pm

This story have been picked up by the Guardian cycling blog

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/b ... sabilities

thelawnet
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Re: Cycling banned in Cycle Town Woking

Postby thelawnet » 23 Feb 2012, 4:04pm

Well a number of notices have appeared on lampposts in the town centre advising of the Surrey County Council Woking Shared Space (Cyclists and Pedestrians) Order (or something like that). Dated 1st February 2012, it indicates that this is a Traffic Regulation Order, effective 6th February 2012, prohibiting cycling on certain stretches of certain roads between 10am and 4pm.

It also advises that the TRO can be inspected at Woking Library and Woking Civic Offices.

So, keen to make a copy of this TRO, read it, perhaps post it online, I went to the library. After half-an-hour, they couldn't find it, and were sure they hadn't been given a copy.

So I went to to the Civic Offices. Another half-an-hour spent, and they had no idea either. They tried the Planning department. 'This is Highways', I said. 'Yes, but Highways is Surrey County Council, Planning is the Borough Council', she explained. No luck.

I've done my best, but as I couldn't get sight of the Order, it wil be impossible for me to comply with.

At least at this point, I don't get the impression that anyone cares. They really need some sort of 'No Cycling 10am-4pm' sign, an A4 notice advising people about a TRO really won't do.

I don't think the police will be enforcing, but if they do, I shall explain that I've tried to inform myself of what roads are restricted and failed.

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rootes
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Re: Cycling banned in Cycle Town Woking

Postby rootes » 23 Feb 2012, 5:00pm

i cycle in woking everyday..

everyone just seems to be carrying on as normal and with no issues, though when the shopping centre redevelopment finishes but re highlight the issue...

this reminds me that Beryl Hunswick (local Councillor) was meant to be contacting me to update on the situation.

thelawnet
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Re: Cycling banned in Cycle Town Woking

Postby thelawnet » 23 Feb 2012, 6:36pm

They chopped down a lot of trees on Commercial Way, I thought it was in order to remove the planters to better facilitate cycling, but it hasn't happened. Not really sure what's going on....

thirdcrank
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Re: Cycling banned in Cycle Town Woking

Postby thirdcrank » 23 Feb 2012, 7:51pm

I don't know how anybody can be sure that there will be no enforcement, even if it's just the wrong legislation being ticketed by poorly-trained street wardens or PCSO's. There have been all sorts of examples recently. I suspect that once the signs are up, copies of the TRO will be available for anybody who does get a ticket. Prevention is better than cure. IMO.

Before a TRO may be implemented, there are various steps to be undertaken, including advertising/ publishing the proposals so that interested parties may object. If they aren't publishing it correctly, then it needs a complaint to the legal department of the relevant highway authority PDQ. (This must be maladministration.) You can hardly comment on something that is unavailable for inspection. If you want to participate in local democracy and are prevented from doing so you have suffered a loss. (This complaint is necessary before you can go further to the toothless omsbuddy who looks at maladministration.)

http://localgovernmentlawyer.co.uk/inde ... &Itemid=32

A lack of consultation may not stop them getting their way in the end because if the procedure is flawed they can start again but I think it's important they are challenged if it's something cycle capmpaigners feel is important. By coincidence, I seems that the government is consulting on the process of streamlining all this: publishing proposed TRO's in local newspapers may not be the best way to reach the public anymore and it's not cheap at a time of cuts. However, that's no excuse for jumping the gun. Your experience may be a suitable subject for a submission to this consultation.

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/t ... swered.pdf

thelawnet
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Re: Cycling banned in Cycle Town Woking

Postby thelawnet » 23 Feb 2012, 9:45pm

thirdcrank wrote:I don't know how anybody can be sure that there will be no enforcement, even if it's just the wrong legislation being ticketed by poorly-trained street wardens or PCSO's. There have been all sorts of examples recently. I suspect that once the signs are up, copies of the TRO will be available for anybody who does get a ticket. Prevention is better than cure. IMO.


Well the local police don't seem terribly bovvered about minor transgressions such as cycling on the pavement, I doubt they'll care.

Before a TRO may be implemented, there are various steps to be undertaken, including advertising/ publishing the proposals so that interested parties may object. If they aren't publishing it correctly, then it needs a complaint to the legal department of the relevant highway authority PDQ. (This must be maladministration.) You can hardly comment on something that is unavailable for inspection. If you want to participate in local democracy and are prevented from doing so you have suffered a loss. (This complaint is necessary before you can go further to the toothless omsbuddy who looks at maladministration.)


Apparently there are six weeks to object to the High Court (!).

I suspect from my interactions today that the man in the library will follow it up and the people in the council won't. Doesn't mean the people at Highways will do their job though.