A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

[Stevek76]

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/brist ... ut-1119542

Death by careless. Knocked down and killed cyclist while pulling out into roundabout, claims the cyclist must have come from behind or somesuch. Witness behind saw the cyclist just fine. Community order + 15month ban + extended retest. Had previous for drunk driving...

[reohn2]

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/driver-who-killed-cyclist-roundabout-1119542

Death by careless. Knocked down and killed cyclist while pulling out into roundabout, claims the cyclist must have come from behind or somesuch. Witness behind saw the cyclist just fine. Community order + 15month ban + extended retest. Had previous for drunk driving...

Plus he pleaded not guilty to careless driving.Does he still think he wasn't driving carelessly?

[Stevek76]

Well his wife who was passengering certainly saw the cyclist. but of course none of that matters becuase

But he [defence lawyer] told the court Bridges had grown into a family man who had started his own business.

Mr Tucker said: “He’s very regretful as to what happened.”

So that's all fine then.

tbh, I'm not even a particular fan of lengthy custodial sentences, I'm not really sure they provide much of a deterrent. What is needed is a much stricter threshold and attitude to who is allowed to drive. Suspensions should be the in the power of, say, DVLA with some pretty rigorous guidelines. E.g. 'at fault' for a minor injury accident nets you 5 year suspension + an extended retest. Obviously funding enough police to enforce all this is also needed.

[Cyril Haearn]

Well his wife who was passengering certainly saw the cyclist. but of course none of that matters becuase

But he [defence lawyer] told the court Bridges had grown into a family man who had started his own business.

Mr Tucker said: “He’s very regretful as to what happened.”

So that's all fine then.

tbh, I'm not even a particular fan of lengthy custodial sentences, I'm not really sure they provide much of a deterrent. What is needed is a much stricter threshold and attitude to who is allowed to drive..
..

+1

[AlaninWales]

Well his wife who was passengering certainly saw the cyclist. but of course none of that matters becuase

But he [defence lawyer] told the court Bridges had grown into a family man who had started his own business.

Mr Tucker said: “He’s very regretful as to what happened.”

So that's all fine then.

tbh, I'm not even a particular fan of lengthy custodial sentences, I'm not really sure they provide much of a deterrent. What is needed is a much stricter threshold and attitude to who is allowed to drive. Suspensions should be the in the power of, say, DVLA with some pretty rigorous guidelines. E.g. 'at fault' for a minor injury accident nets you 5 year suspension + an extended retest. Obviously funding enough police to enforce all this is also needed.

Sounds good. However I suspect that the unintended consequences would include an increase in hit and runs: "He won't have been hurt much by that - I'm not stopping and losing my licence for five years". Of course if it is caught in (an acceptable quality) camera that (maybe) won't wash, but the chances of that are currently slim.

[Stevek76]

Yes I agree the practicalities are always the problem with such tougher regimes and this all goes together with an understaffed and underfunded police force that doesn't have time to enforce bans anyway.

[ianrobo]

Today we had the sad news of three people being killed at a bus stop, this is a regular occurrence.

Of course the BBC report it as people killed by a car (lets ignore the driver eh ??) and no question this was speed. It is all about the politicians ignoring the shrill voices of motoring lobbies and Press and declare a 'war on bad drivers' and good driver obeying the law has NOTHING to fear.

In this way all organisations like Cycling UK, Stop Killing cyclists, any pedestrian organisations, Brake, Victims organisations etc should get together and ask for for

- possible life sentences for death by dangerous driving
- Life time ban for any driver convicted of DD
- Sentences for Drunk driving to be increased and no one made exempt because of personal life, total personal responsibility
- Two and out for drink driving - second offence - lifetime ban
- Increased spending on average speed cameras on all major roads
- lower speed limits on residential to 20MPH
- Making parking illegal within a half a mile radius of any school unless they have their own provision
- Ask insurance companies to give bigger discounts for those with black boxes on cars

Seems sensible to me ?

[thirdcrank]

Does the prospect of a long prison sentence deter really bad driving?

To answer that, we'd have to know some of the reasons for this type of conduct, because I suspect while people who plan, calculate, premeditate, whatever must surely weigh up things like that, when somebody is acting for other, less logic-based reasons, I don't think they do so.

A couple of people who caused death by dangerous driving have been sentenced in the last couple of days. One was here, in Leeds, where a stolen car full of young men and boys eventually hit a tree at a big speed killing five of the occupants. The fifteen year-old driver was sentenced at Leeds Crown Court yesterday. Did the prospect of custody deter this teenager? Did he even think as he was driving his mates around Leeds that he might kill himself? Of course not.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42829783

A doctor who was said to be keen to get his daughter to a maths lesson was seen by independent witnesses to "drive like a lunatic" narrowly missed crashing head-on into other vehicles, whose drivers were forced to make drastic manoeuvres to avoid him, jumped a red light before crashing into a wall, killing his own daughter, injuring another and himself. The investigation found evidence that he had been driving at twice the speed limit.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ma ... r-42834079

On the subject of lenient sentences, the judge said:

... there were a number of mitigating features but said the offence was so serious only an "immediate prison term was appropriate".

If he listed them, it's not reported, but the injuries to himself and the loss of his daughter were nobody else's fault. Asa doctor, he's a goody rather than a baddy, but IMO that's all the more reason to behave correctly.

The aggravating features seem to me to be no remorse (pleaded Not Guilty and contested the evidence) claimed that his brakes had failed when the technical evidence was that this was not so. Introduced his status as a doctor when interviewed.

Anyway, this is an intelligent and highly-educated man who seems to have succumbed to the infamous red mist.

(There are other online reports of the evidence heard by the jury during the trial: the case was adjourned after conviction for sentencing.)

[Cyril Haearn]

How many lunatic manoeuvres do not cause "accidents" and are not detected? Millions every day

[ianrobo]

Does the prospect of a long prison sentence deter really bad driving?

well you could say the same about any sentence, look at capital punishment in US states, murder rate is no different ...

However it is about proper justice to victims and if it makes someone think, hang on I will go 10mph slower and that reduces the risk of incidents then surely worth doing it ?

I am in now way part of the hang and flog brigade but I do believe in sentences fitting crimes and some crimes deserve strong sentences and some deserve a second chance but not a third or fourth etc.

Esp as some magistrates do not even ban on drink driving as someone may lose their job, well thats just tough and part of the punishment they have been let off !

[Bonefishblues]

Have there been drunk drivers who have escaped a ban? Didn't know that.

[Cyril Haearn]

Have there been drunk drivers who have escaped a ban? Didn't know that.

Vast numbers are not caught

[Bonefishblues]

Have there been drunk drivers who have escaped a ban? Didn't know that.

Vast numbers are not caught

I was saying that I didn't know that those caught were able to escape a ban.

[ianrobo]

Have there been drunk drivers who have escaped a ban? Didn't know that.

escaped jail when clear case - https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/79436 ... amily-rely

escaped one when way over =- procedural - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-ban.html

special reasons and did not realise she was drinking vodka in the morning with OJ - https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... h-12773997

[Bonefishblues]

Have there been drunk drivers who have escaped a ban? Didn't know that.

escaped jail when clear case - https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/79436 ... amily-rely

escaped one when way over =- procedural - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-ban.html

special reasons and did not realise she was drinking vodka in the morning with OJ - https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... h-12773997

Interesting, thanks - I understood it was an offence of Strict Liability, but I've now read the defences available, and something about their application, which seem to fit with natual justice to me.