A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Bonefishblues
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby Bonefishblues » 28 Jan 2018, 11:27pm

reohn2 wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:One man's"loophole lawyer" is another's upholder of justice I guess - like the case cited earlier of police charging an unconscious man with refusal to provide a sample. If they are so laughably incompetent then no wonder a smart lawyer is able to challenge it, as must be their right in a society that takes the Rule of Law seriously.

To be clear I think that it was a crap outcome, but let's be clear it was the police at fault.

If the unconscious suspect was so drunk asking him to take a breathtest when he woke up would surely have proved positive,so yes I agree policing standards aren't what they should be by a long shot and for more than one reason.

It would have, unquestionably.

Stevek76
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby Stevek76 » 29 Jan 2018, 12:50pm

If the police have pulled you over for a breath test because your driving is obviously not up to scratch then imo, the defence of 'my drink was spiked' becomes irrelevant. As far as I'm concerned, if you're not self-aware/critical enough to know when you're not fit to drive you're not fit to drive at all. Impairment can come through many forms, it's been fairly well demonstrated that being tired can actually be worse than being drunk for many (obviously that depends on 'how drunk' and 'how tired').

ianrobo
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby ianrobo » 29 Jan 2018, 8:01pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
ianrobo wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:You may have to explain the relationship between this and what we're discussing because I don't see it tbh.


excuses mate, one of these links I posted claimed was spiked OJ with Vodka, the doping one, claims kissing, both are equally BS but both enough to make people actually believe it. Do not know about you but if you had enough vodka to drink to take you over the limit you would taste it !

Read the case. She had had 3 large wines the previous evening. She would have had some residual alcohol in her system the next morning. It wouldn't necessarily take that much mixed in a pint of orange juice to take her over the limit again - rather exacerbated by her poor sense of smell and taste as a result of her cosmetic surgery.

Convinced 3 Magistrates who actually heard the case, but obviously not a bloke on the internet :wink:


no convinced car drivers with biases, especially after drinking night before, BTW I want a zero alcohol level (well as close to zero as possible) for me DD is the worse possible thing you can do as it is deliberate !

Bonefishblues
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby Bonefishblues » 29 Jan 2018, 8:48pm

What has the fact that they may or may not be car drivers got to do with bias? Are you saying that a car driving Magistrate is incapable of hearing a case where driving is a material factor without being biased?

Bonefishblues
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby Bonefishblues » 29 Jan 2018, 8:51pm

Stevek76 wrote:If the police have pulled you over for a breath test because your driving is obviously not up to scratch then imo, the defence of 'my drink was spiked' becomes irrelevant. As far as I'm concerned, if you're not self-aware/critical enough to know when you're not fit to drive you're not fit to drive at all. Impairment can come through many forms, it's been fairly well demonstrated that being tired can actually be worse than being drunk for many (obviously that depends on 'how drunk' and 'how tired').

A side effect of alcohol is to mask the ability to make accurate judgement so almost by by definition a driver would be unaware of their diminished capabilities.

thirdcrank
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby thirdcrank » 29 Jan 2018, 8:55pm

Bonefishblues wrote:What has the fact that they may or may not be car drivers got to do with bias? Are you saying that a car driving Magistrate is incapable of hearing a case where driving is a material factor without being biased?


Looking at it the other way round, some years ago through cycle campaigning I became aquainted with a Sustrans surveyor who was a magistrates and he said they wouldn't let him hear cases involving motoring offences. I've no idea whether it was true, but the point was made in connection with the very dim view he took of bad driving.

ianrobo
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby ianrobo » 29 Jan 2018, 9:42pm

and yes I believe magistrates are swayed but the 'it could have been me' so many of these cases where a sob story gets a DD off a ban and it is not right at all, DD kills, as simple as that.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby The utility cyclist » 8 Feb 2018, 7:46pm

Not in the UK but a guy in a car uses a 42cm machete on a couple cycling, injuring his hands, torso and face :shock: https://www.lematin.ch/faits-divers/sai ... y/25477811 apparently the guy in the car was intimidated so much by their cycling he drove on ahead, waited for them and then attacked, sorry defended himself with the machete and it was the cyclists fault for getting cuts because apparently he thought it was a stick or baton and grabbed at it :roll:
Only 21 month suspended sentence :twisted:
Last edited by Graham on 8 Feb 2018, 8:00pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: family friendly edit

thirdcrank
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby thirdcrank » 8 Feb 2018, 8:03pm

From that link, the secondary headline:

Un automobiliste a écopé mardi de 21 mois de prison avec sursis pour avoir blessé un homme à vélo, en août 2015, à Bienne.


I think the bit I've underlined means "copped for" ie copped for 21 months suspended. It looks to have been written without irony so perhaps they don't see it as a particularly soft option. :?

I know nothing about Swiss law but I wonder what the legal significance of this is:

Le jugement n'est pas encore entré en force.


- The judgment hasn't yet come into force.

Still subject to some sort of confirmation?

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The utility cyclist
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby The utility cyclist » 8 Feb 2018, 8:53pm

Yeah, I saw that and wondered what that meant, paperwork needs finalising, who knows.
I only saw it because it was linked on Cycling Switzerland FB page.

brynpoeth
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby brynpoeth » 8 Feb 2018, 9:14pm

Maybe he was given leave to appeal
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Grandad
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby Grandad » 6 Mar 2018, 9:21pm

Not sure if this is the correct forum but did anyone see last nights Channel 4 fly on the wall programme "24 hours in police custody"?

2 drug addicts in a house, one died from drug related problems. The other panicked and took the body and left in in a public park. Not responsible for the death but charged with obstructing the coroner and unlawfully moving the body.

Sentenced to 2 years in prison! On this scale what should a motorist who causes a death get?

brynpoeth
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby brynpoeth » 6 Mar 2018, 9:29pm

Grandad wrote:Not sure if this is the correct forum but did anyone see last nights Channel 4 fly on the wall programme "24 hours in police custody"?

2 drug addicts in a house, one died from drug related problems. The other panicked and took the body and left in in a public park. Not responsible for the death but charged with obstructing the coroner and unlawfully moving the body.

Sentenced to 2 years in prison! On this scale what should a motorist who causes a death get?

Couldn't afford a lawyer
Maybe she will be lucky and get help in prison that was not available outside
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thirdcrank
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby thirdcrank » 6 Mar 2018, 9:30pm

I didn't see the programme but I think the general point is that the law takes a dim view when public justice offences are proved. eg Swapping totting-up points = perverting the course of justice and C Huhne and his ex got 8 months apiece.

Grandad
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby Grandad » 6 Mar 2018, 11:57pm

I didn't see the programme but I think the general point is that the law takes a dim view when public justice offences are proved. eg Swapping totting-up points = perverting the course of justice and C Huhne and his ex got 8 months apiece

To my mind the huhnes' offences were far worse than just moving a dead body and on that scale warranted more than 2 years. Perverting the course of justice is surely more serious than obstructing a coroner (I don't understand what the obstruction was) and moving a body.