A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Jdsk
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby Jdsk » 25 Aug 2020, 8:09pm

Yes, certainly seem to see more from superior courts. And more from cases with greater public attention, although that could well be some sort of cognitive bias on my part.

Sentencing Remarks are particularly attractive because they're usually not that long but contain a lot of the information that's needed to counter prejudice-based reporting.

Jonathan

thirdcrank
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby thirdcrank » 25 Aug 2020, 8:21pm

Sentencing remarks have certainly become much more detailed and important since judges have been required to explain in some detail how they have applied sentencing guidelines.

Probably not typical of the wider judiciary but I was present (white gloves duty) at Leeds Sessions when a barrister mitigating before Judge James Pickles was interrupted with "Your client is a hypocrite and will go to prison for two years." That was the max for the offence and not long afterwards it was reported as being substantially reduced on appeal.

Pebble
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby Pebble » 13 Sep 2020, 10:30am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... e-54073806
"Seria had been cycling in Edinburgh when she was knocked down by a disqualified driver in April 2009.
He was later fined £600 for dangerous driving.
"

It is not much of a deterrent for causing such lif changing injuries. Driving whilst disqualified, should that not be a custodial sentence?

Jdsk
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby Jdsk » 13 Sep 2020, 10:56am

Pebble wrote:Driving whilst disqualified, should that not be a custodial sentence?

I don't know. Which purpose would you hope to achieve with imprisonment?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_(law)#Philosophies

Jonathan

Pebble
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby Pebble » 13 Sep 2020, 1:08pm

Jdsk wrote:
Pebble wrote:Driving whilst disqualified, should that not be a custodial sentence?

I don't know. Which purpose would you hope to achieve with imprisonment?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_(law)#Philosophies

Jonathan

It would have a deterrent effect on other disqualified drivers continuing to drive, it may deter this individual from doing so again, and if nothing else at least while they were in prison they could no longer carry on driving. Pity it is a max 6 month sentence, I would give them 6 years.

What would you do with someone who has been disqualified from driving but continues regardless? disqualify them a bit more.

Oldjohnw
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby Oldjohnw » 13 Sep 2020, 1:17pm

Some might soon have their wishes fulfilled. The government is looking at bringing in whole of life sentences for children and also reintroducing the ability of the Justice Secretary to interfere with sentencing.

Ok it's intended for terrorists but we know what happens with mission creep
John

Jdsk
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby Jdsk » 13 Sep 2020, 1:19pm

Thanks.

If that report is correct the driver was convicted of dangerous driving, maximum sentence 2y imprisonment.

The Sentencing Guidelines don't seem to include being disqualified in the aggravating factors: can anyone confirm that?
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/dangerous-driving/

Jonathan

thirdcrank
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby thirdcrank » 13 Sep 2020, 1:25pm

AIUI, the offence occurred in Scotland some 11 years ago. The current sentencing guidelines for E&W are not directly applicable.

Jdsk
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby Jdsk » 13 Sep 2020, 1:26pm

Pebble wrote:What would you do with someone who has been disqualified from driving but continues regardless? disqualify them a bit more.

I'd find out what works by experiment and then do that while studying it further.

That would include no custodial sentences shorter than six months. And some elements of restorative justice.

Compared to what seems to happen at the moment I'd consider:
* Much stronger enforcement of suspension, including technological support.
* Extended testing and psychological assessment before restoration of the privilege to drive. And review after restoration.
* Fines related to wealth/ income/etc... we have some components of that but it could be much steeper.

I don't know whether wider use of confiscation of vehicles would help.

Jonathan

Jdsk
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby Jdsk » 13 Sep 2020, 1:26pm

thirdcrank wrote:AIUI, the offence occurred in Scotland some 11 years ago. The current sentencing guidelines for E&W are not directly applicable.

Thanks. Is there anything available on what actually happened?

Jonathan

thirdcrank
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby thirdcrank » 13 Sep 2020, 1:38pm

Jdsk wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:AIUI, the offence occurred in Scotland some 11 years ago. The current sentencing guidelines for E&W are not directly applicable.

Thanks. Is there anything available on what actually happened? ...


I've nothing more to go on than the linked report. Also, I'm always cautious about commenting on Scotland because it's without my experience. ("Without" is a word I've seen in police reports from Scottish forces where I'd have expected "outside.")

Jdsk
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby Jdsk » 13 Sep 2020, 1:39pm

Thanks

Jonathan

Jdsk
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby Jdsk » 14 Sep 2020, 9:14am

Advance coverage by the Guardian of the imminent White Paper on sentencing:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/sep/14/motorists-who-cause-death-by-speeding-could-face-life-sentence

If that's accurate I'd expect this to have very little effect on anything except political posturing: there are plenty of offences and high enough maximum sentences available already.

More effort on prevention, detection, enforcement and research however...

Jonathan

PS:
thirdcrank wrote:("Without" is a word I've seen in police reports from Scottish forces where I'd have expected "outside.")

"There is a green hill far away... "

thirdcrank
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby thirdcrank » 14 Sep 2020, 11:11am

Jdsk wrote:
"There is a green hill far away... "


Published 1848 I see, so even older than the incident being discussed here.

DaveGos
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Re: A place to record lenient sentencing for motorvehicle....

Postby DaveGos » 14 Sep 2020, 12:00pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54141729

May just result in juries not convicting , who knows , to me its simple . Life ban from driving . With e bikes and public transport its not exactly that much of a hardship. if they continue to drive under a ban then a very long jail sentence.