Traffic calming, paint & ...

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anothereye
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Re: Traffic calming, paint & ...

Postby anothereye » 3 Aug 2012, 1:39pm

documentation produced for the London Assembly Transport Committee can be downloaded here:
Cycling in London - Summary of views from the 12 July meeting:
http://www.london.gov.uk/publication/cy ... k.facebook
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Mark1978
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Re: Traffic calming, paint & ...

Postby Mark1978 » 3 Aug 2012, 2:30pm

You make some good points, however I would leave out the angled speed hump bit -- it's quite likely they'll get to that and go 'astonishing?!' and then hence ignore all of it!

Mark1978
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Re: Traffic calming, paint & ...

Postby Mark1978 » 3 Aug 2012, 2:37pm

Don't use this line! "1.5m is just rehashing existing crap standards".. There is no need to swear - especially when sending this to a government department, you'll be dismissed as a crackpot. Simply use the word 'poor', 'insufficient' , 'unacceptable' any number of words, just not 'crap'.

As for your ideas for chicanes, no chance! They make my experience as a cyclist much much much more dangerous! When you are heading to them in the priority direction (where you aren't expected to give way), drivers will try to race around you to get to the chicane first, drivers coming in the other direction will ignore the cyclists priority and attempt to push through.

Even when you are using the cycle lane part of it, this will often result in you going past drivers who have just overtaken you, and they will then have to overtake you again - further increasing frustration.

Suggesting more chicanes is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard of!

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anothereye
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Re: Traffic calming, paint & ...

Postby anothereye » 3 Aug 2012, 4:43pm

Mark1978 wrote:You make some good points, however I would leave out the angled speed hump bit -- it's quite likely they'll get to that and go 'astonishing?!' and then hence ignore all of it!
Yes, I did leave it out of the submission after considering some of the above comments.
Designs at the ideas stage are not ready for this kind of submission.
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anothereye
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Re: Traffic calming, paint & ...

Postby anothereye » 3 Aug 2012, 4:48pm

Mark1978 wrote:Don't use this line! "1.5m is just rehashing existing crap standards".. There is no need to swear - especially when sending this to a government department, you'll be dismissed as a crackpot.
I only realised afterward & agree it's a mistake (it was a cut & paste from a post on, I think, this thread).
Chicanes: I'd not mentioned them in the first draft but someone suggested them and I looked into them, I take your point but I think some are OK & some are badly designed.
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Mark1978
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Re: Traffic calming, paint & ...

Postby Mark1978 » 7 Aug 2012, 10:58am

The best thing for cyclists is simply plenty of space. Which is what we don't really have :)

SJSBrompton
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Re: Traffic calming, paint & ...

Postby SJSBrompton » 7 Aug 2012, 11:23am

Funny how there is space to dedicate a whole lane (or merge two into one at some points, like Parliament Square), for the Olympics 'Zil' Lanes. You can bet the same old argument about not enough space will get trotted out again next time better cycle provision in London is discussed.

Muses
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Re: Traffic calming, paint & ...

Postby Muses » 9 Aug 2012, 3:55pm

anothereye wrote:Chicanes: I'd not mentioned them in the first draft but someone suggested them and I looked into them, I take your point but I think some are OK & some are badly designed.


Sorry but I have never seen a well designed chicane. Even those that have filter lanes for cyclists only have them on the side where traffic is with you, you are still left with a stream of cars coming at you on the side where they are supposed to give way (but very rarely do unless there are cars right behind you, and then you are at risk from them trying to overtake you in too small a space). I have even had lorries and buses refuse to give way to me when I had clear priority, on one occasion a bus driver stuck 2 fingers up at me when I put my hand up for him to stop (he got reported to his company). Recommending more of these things is not a good idea. My general tactic is always to occupy the centre of the lane well before the chicane so people can't overtake but occasionally you still get some idiot that tries, so you have to keep your wits about you.

Mark1978
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Re: Traffic calming, paint & ...

Postby Mark1978 » 10 Aug 2012, 10:41am

Lets face it chicanes are bad for all road users. It's only those who wish to cause maximum inconvenience to all road users who would think they are a good idea and wish to install them. If I were in charge I'd order all of them to be immediately removed.

kwackers
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Re: Traffic calming, paint & ...

Postby kwackers » 10 Aug 2012, 10:53am

Mark1978 wrote:Lets face it chicanes are bad for all road users. It's only those who wish to cause maximum inconvenience to all road users who would think they are a good idea and wish to install them. If I were in charge I'd order all of them to be immediately removed.

I suspect those that live on a street that's a rat run would disagree - but then they may not be road users so in that respect you'd be correct. :wink:

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anothereye
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Re: Traffic calming, paint & ...

Postby anothereye » 10 Aug 2012, 12:21pm

Point taken about chicanes.
I suggest we discuss what we prefer rather than what we don't like.
What is the best way to calm traffic (from a cyclists perspective)?
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snibgo
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Re: Traffic calming, paint & ...

Postby snibgo » 10 Aug 2012, 12:56pm

anothereye wrote:What is the best way to calm traffic (from a cyclists perspective)?

Bollards across the road.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Traffic calming, paint & ...

Postby [XAP]Bob » 10 Aug 2012, 6:16pm

snibgo wrote:
anothereye wrote:What is the best way to calm traffic (from a cyclists perspective)?

Bollards across the road.

Or a total, and long lasting, fuel blockade.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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anothereye
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Re: Traffic calming, paint & ...

Postby anothereye » 10 Aug 2012, 6:31pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:
snibgo wrote:
anothereye wrote:What is the best way to calm traffic (from a cyclists perspective)?

Bollards across the road.

Or a total, and long lasting, fuel blockade.
I don't mind a laugh & I'd love a world without motorists, but seriously, it's easy to say what we don't like. If we want improvemens it will help for us to come up with suggestions.
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Re: Traffic calming, paint & ...

Postby [XAP]Bob » 10 Aug 2012, 7:28pm

It was in jest, but only partly. More expensive fuel would go a long way to calming most motorists.

Scrap ved - put it all on fuel.
Put 3rd party insurance on a new MOT disc - with a £250 excess.
Add strict liability.
Prioritise cycling in all development, add secure and dry storage to all stations, cycle carriages, carriers on buses.

Speed limited enforced by short bans. 1st offence 1 week ban. 2nd 2 weeks, 3rd 4 weeks....
excessive speed may skip one or more levels (e.g 50 in a 30).
20mph defalt speed limits in residential/commercial areas. Maybe just leave limits but read them in kph
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.