Public bike stand security

David Robinson
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Public bike stand security

Postby David Robinson » 2 Oct 2012, 6:23am

There are numerous types of public bike stands to chain your bike to. However it is still necessary to carry some form of lock which can be heavy. It would make life easier if bike stands had two or three lengthes of security chain welded to them to fit through the frame wheels saddle. You would them only need to carry a decent padlock assuming you always used a public bike stand. This would be particularly useful in place of high risk such as London

Geriatrix
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Re: Public bike stand security

Postby Geriatrix » 2 Oct 2012, 6:41am

I think its a good idea. Certainly worthwhile trialling.
Protecting against theft is a bit of an arms race. Every measure is met by a counter measure so it would be interesting to see how it stands up.
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled - Richard Feynman

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Public bike stand security

Postby [XAP]Bob » 2 Oct 2012, 11:19am

Just look on the continent - that's what all the stands I saw in Finland were like.

They also had fittings for using your own lock, but they were primarily designed for a padlock approach.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Public bike stand security

Postby thirdcrank » 2 Oct 2012, 1:20pm

I've seen bike stands which include a substantial bar which locks the bike in.

I can't see how anything short of some sort of substantial locker or cage is going to prevent theft of components and accessories.

Mark1978
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Re: Public bike stand security

Postby Mark1978 » 2 Oct 2012, 1:26pm

thirdcrank wrote:I can't see how anything short of some sort of substantial locker or cage is going to prevent theft of components and accessories.


I have a carrier bag in my saddle bag. In which goes my helmet, lights, cycle computer, bidons - and saddle bag!

It is a right pain however - I have a substantial lock, however it doesn't fit on my frame and is really heavy anyway, so my wife has to bring it in the car!

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7_lives_left
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Re: Public bike stand security

Postby 7_lives_left » 2 Oct 2012, 2:33pm

I'm not saying the OP's idea is a bad one but I can think of some drawbacks if use of this type of bike stand became popular. Imagine that there are more cyclists than there are stands with chains. You would have cyclists circling around the streets with a padlock in their back pocket waiting to pounce on any stand that became available. Imagine the arguments you would get if two cyclists arrived at the last free stand at the same time. It reminds me of another form of transport.

Meanwhile, if you were carrying a U-lock or chain, there is a good chance that you could lock the bike to any bit of street furniture that happend to handy.

Geriatrix
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Re: Public bike stand security

Postby Geriatrix » 2 Oct 2012, 4:03pm

There are advantages and disadvantages to bike stand security.
Bike locks are somewhat compromised by the fact that they need to be portable and there is always a compromise between weight and strength. It makes sense to locate the heavy bits at the bike stand so that the cyclist only needs to carry a good lock.
The disadvantage is that if the stand is full all you have is a useless lock.

I still think its worth a try, it could work. If its widely enough applied then there will be more opportunities to park in other locations. As a commuter cyclist I would probably make the effort to get there early to get a slot.

This may be controversial but I would be prepared to pay for secure parking. Free parking suffers from the disadvantage that the space is often compromised by an accumulation of abandoned BSO's.
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled - Richard Feynman

Mark1978
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Re: Public bike stand security

Postby Mark1978 » 2 Oct 2012, 4:05pm

It's difficult enough to just get sheffield stands in a lot of places, nevermind this too :(

SJSBrompton
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Re: Public bike stand security

Postby SJSBrompton » 2 Oct 2012, 4:18pm

Covered Sheffield stands in an enclosed area, fenced off and covered and only accessible by a swipe card (which you pay a deposit for), are becoming more common across South West train stations. I don't know about other places, but there is a large one at Kingston upon Thames, and a couple of the existing stands have been adapted at Teddington station (with some left as before, just on the platform but not covered). The Teddington ones are historically pretty full but not sure what the uptake has been for the extra secure ones - I was going through at a weekend as I don't commute that way anymore. They are also putting them in at Norbiton, which is apparently a bike theft hotspot for London.

Even my local station, in a fairly grim area - has suddenly sprouted three metal bike lockers alongside the standard Sheffield stands.

Mark1978
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Re: Public bike stand security

Postby Mark1978 » 2 Oct 2012, 4:21pm

A lot of people seem to take the approach of leaving their lock at their intended destination. Which also creates the problem of abandoned bicycle locks.

iviehoff
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Re: Public bike stand security

Postby iviehoff » 2 Oct 2012, 4:38pm

As many as 4 bicycles may use one Sheffield stand, and at places where I lock my bike up in central London, this regularly happens. Though such high levels of multiple use of stands is sometimes impeded by the ignorant or selfish.

The sensible cyclist locking his bike up in the streets in central London requires to secure the frame and both wheels. Taking into account multiple use of stands, and security requirements, I would therefore suggest that a Sheffield stand in central London, if pre-supplied with chains, would need a great many more chains than than 2 or 3. And a lesser degree of ignorance/selfishness by other users.

The people who leave bike locks on the stand remind me of the kind of people who travel without a bicycle pump or a raincoat, they think it won't happen to them, despite the fact it surely will. In this case, "it" is needing sometimes to stop somewhere else unplanned and secure the bicycle.

thirdcrank
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Re: Public bike stand security

Postby thirdcrank » 2 Oct 2012, 6:47pm

iviehoff wrote: ...The people who leave bike locks on the stand remind me of the kind of people who travel without a bicycle pump or a raincoat, they think it won't happen to them, despite the fact it surely will. In this case, "it" is needing sometimes to stop somewhere else unplanned and secure the bicycle.


Speaking as the owner of a sheffield stand, I agree with everything you say except the bit I've quoted. How on earth do you know that they don't carry another lock around, using the one they leave at a stand just at that destination eg if they work nearby?

reohn2
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Re: Public bike stand security

Postby reohn2 » 2 Oct 2012, 8:27pm

thirdcrank wrote:I've seen bike stands which include a substantial bar which locks the bike in.

I can't see how anything short of some sort of substantial locker or cage is going to prevent theft of components and accessories.


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gaz
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Re: Public bike stand security

Postby gaz » 2 Oct 2012, 9:06pm

Mark1978 wrote:A lot of people seem to take the approach of leaving their lock at their intended destination. Which also creates the problem of abandoned bicycle locks.
A lock that's left in place can be tampered with. If the owner arrives to find his locking missing or superglued and he doesn't have another lock of equal quality then there's a problem. The primary line of defence has already been defeated and whoever did it will be quite capable of overcoming any secondary lock.

A public chain can be tampered with almost as easily as a lock that's left in place.

You could arrive to find the chain has been removed, your tiny but ever so high quality padlock isn't going to help you now.

More worryingly the chain could be tampered with. How hard would it be to grind through a single link overnight and add some temporary filler to the gap?
You lock up thinking all's well and return to find your high quality padlock is indeed undefeated but your bike's nowhere to be seen.
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drossall
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Re: Public bike stand security

Postby drossall » 2 Oct 2012, 9:59pm

In our town centre, some racks have an arm that goes through the frame. The front wheel slides between two shields that prevent its being removed. The arm can be secured with a simple lock or a U lock. This seems pretty much to meet the description of the OP.

I've never seen them anywhere else, and even in this town they are in the minority - most are standard Sheffield stands.

If I remember, I'll get a picture this weekend.