So sorry R2.
It must be devastating.
Heart-felt condolences to you and your family.
Operation Relentless
Re: Operation Relentless
Mick F. Cornwall
Re: Operation Relentless
TC
The police have been a little evasive about telling my daughter how many times this man had been reported but she's recieved a number of reports from people who have reported him in the past for such stunts.
There used to be something called preventative policing,indeed Shootist on another thread said "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of reaction" or something similar.
IMO the police could do a lot in removing people such as this person from our roads if (that little word again) they had the will and the manpower.
Thanks for the links I'll follow them up.We(the family) are waiting until the hearing after which we'll decide what to do.
The police have been a little evasive about telling my daughter how many times this man had been reported but she's recieved a number of reports from people who have reported him in the past for such stunts.
There used to be something called preventative policing,indeed Shootist on another thread said "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of reaction" or something similar.
IMO the police could do a lot in removing people such as this person from our roads if (that little word again) they had the will and the manpower.
Thanks for the links I'll follow them up.We(the family) are waiting until the hearing after which we'll decide what to do.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Re: Operation Relentless
Mick F wrote:So sorry R2.
It must be devastating.
Heart-felt condolences to you and your family.
Thanks Mick,it's appreciated
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
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axel_knutt
- Posts: 2928
- Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 12:20pm
Re: Operation Relentless
So sorry to hear of your loss R2.
On the subject of the ignored thefts, here's a copy of a post I made about four years ago:
Two psychologists called John Darley and Bibb Latane did the research on this decades ago after a tenament full of people stood watching a woman being raped and murdered without callng the police. The whole attack took about 35 minutes, during which time the attacker went away twice after seeing lights in windows, but came back to finish the job after no police arrived.
D&L's research showed that whilst the probability of a lone witness intervening to help is 85%, this figure drops to just 31% when there are four or more witnesses. It also showed that if no one acts within the first three minutes, it’s unlikely that anyone will. These figures were based on a simulated epileptic siezure, so it's probably reasonable to assume that seriousness of other incidents will affect the probabilities one way or the other.
The major factor is embarrassment at breaking social etiquette ie: conformity. D&L also tested to see whether people would act to save themselves, as opposed to another, and found the same effect. Someone who is alone in a building they believe to be on fire will leave, but someone who is with others who ignore the danger will sit there and do nothing, apparently waiting to burn.
D&L identified five key stages involved in helping behaviour:
1. You must notice the incident.
2. You must interpret the incident as one where help is required.
3. You must assume personal responsibility.
4. You must decide what action to take.
5. You must act.
Step two would be undermined if you percieved a violent incident as a lover’s tiff, or a burglar as a person who’s lost his keys.
Three is undermined when there is more than one witness.
Four and five: D&L found that their subjects were scared, sweaty, and trembling afterwards, and unable to give a coherent account of their actions. They had been paralysed by indecision, and were not just apathetic as had been assumed.
As a footnote to all this, research by Arthur Beaman has shown that people who have been educated in D&L’s five steps are twice as likely to help in an emergency as people who haven’t.
Refs:
Lauren Slater, Opening Skinner's Box: Great Psychological Experiments of the 20th Century
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial%5...ty%5Fgenovese/
A. Beaman, P. Barnes, B. Klentz & B. Mcquirk, “Increasing Helping rates through information dissemination: Teaching Pays”, Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin 4 (1979) pp 406-11
On the subject of the ignored thefts, here's a copy of a post I made about four years ago:
Two psychologists called John Darley and Bibb Latane did the research on this decades ago after a tenament full of people stood watching a woman being raped and murdered without callng the police. The whole attack took about 35 minutes, during which time the attacker went away twice after seeing lights in windows, but came back to finish the job after no police arrived.
D&L's research showed that whilst the probability of a lone witness intervening to help is 85%, this figure drops to just 31% when there are four or more witnesses. It also showed that if no one acts within the first three minutes, it’s unlikely that anyone will. These figures were based on a simulated epileptic siezure, so it's probably reasonable to assume that seriousness of other incidents will affect the probabilities one way or the other.
The major factor is embarrassment at breaking social etiquette ie: conformity. D&L also tested to see whether people would act to save themselves, as opposed to another, and found the same effect. Someone who is alone in a building they believe to be on fire will leave, but someone who is with others who ignore the danger will sit there and do nothing, apparently waiting to burn.
D&L identified five key stages involved in helping behaviour:
1. You must notice the incident.
2. You must interpret the incident as one where help is required.
3. You must assume personal responsibility.
4. You must decide what action to take.
5. You must act.
Step two would be undermined if you percieved a violent incident as a lover’s tiff, or a burglar as a person who’s lost his keys.
Three is undermined when there is more than one witness.
Four and five: D&L found that their subjects were scared, sweaty, and trembling afterwards, and unable to give a coherent account of their actions. They had been paralysed by indecision, and were not just apathetic as had been assumed.
As a footnote to all this, research by Arthur Beaman has shown that people who have been educated in D&L’s five steps are twice as likely to help in an emergency as people who haven’t.
Refs:
Lauren Slater, Opening Skinner's Box: Great Psychological Experiments of the 20th Century
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial%5...ty%5Fgenovese/
A. Beaman, P. Barnes, B. Klentz & B. Mcquirk, “Increasing Helping rates through information dissemination: Teaching Pays”, Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin 4 (1979) pp 406-11
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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thirdcrank
- Posts: 36781
- Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm
Re: Operation Relentless
I've only intervened (in the sense of getting directly involved) once since I retired. (I don't think I'v related this before on here.)
In daylight I was on my shopping bike on the A 650 when there was a lot of hooting, tooting and general screeching of tyres behind me on the old Gildersome roundabout. Situation normal, I hear you cry, but it was worse than that. A lone woman in a small car pulled up in front of me as she appered to be forced to stop by a large 4X4 which pulled up in front of her. Both occupants of the 4X4 got out - looking like a couple of old fashioned club bouncers or bookies' enforcers. As they strode back to the lone woman she wound up her windows and started on her mobile. It looked nasty. I made the futile gesture of stopping and asking the woman if she was OK. The men treated me with such contempt that I hardly got a "What's it to do with you?" I persisted but the woman was by then laughing at me and I got something along the lines of "I will be when you @@@@@....." They were Travellers and she was the wife of one of the men. I rode off feeling rather silly but glad to be intact.
The entire incident was watched by a queue of drivers waiting to join the roundabout.
In daylight I was on my shopping bike on the A 650 when there was a lot of hooting, tooting and general screeching of tyres behind me on the old Gildersome roundabout. Situation normal, I hear you cry, but it was worse than that. A lone woman in a small car pulled up in front of me as she appered to be forced to stop by a large 4X4 which pulled up in front of her. Both occupants of the 4X4 got out - looking like a couple of old fashioned club bouncers or bookies' enforcers. As they strode back to the lone woman she wound up her windows and started on her mobile. It looked nasty. I made the futile gesture of stopping and asking the woman if she was OK. The men treated me with such contempt that I hardly got a "What's it to do with you?" I persisted but the woman was by then laughing at me and I got something along the lines of "I will be when you @@@@@....." They were Travellers and she was the wife of one of the men. I rode off feeling rather silly but glad to be intact.
The entire incident was watched by a queue of drivers waiting to join the roundabout.
Re: Operation Relentless
A US TV programme did something similar, but added another element by staging a similar theft scenario with different thieves
The ABC What would you do? segment is about 11 minutes, but it is interesting how the different thieves are treated.
The ABC What would you do? segment is about 11 minutes, but it is interesting how the different thieves are treated.