Operation Relentless

[thirdcrank]

As part of its latest "crackdown" Operation Relentless, the Avon and Somerset Constabulary has conducted an exercise where they openly pretended to steal bikes in "broad daylight" and fimed the public response, or in this case the lack of it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-20248535

This is presented as public indifference. There's always been an element of people "not wanting to get involved," but I'd suggest the main thing for Colin Port (and other chief constables) to take away from this is that if the public gets used to being routinely fobbed off when they report their concerns to the police, it's only natural that they'll stop bothering.

[reohn2]

............I'd suggest the main thing for Colin Port (and other chief constables) to take away from this is that if the public gets used to being routinely fobbed off when they report their concerns to the police, it's only natural that they'll stop bothering.

Exactly,if we had more police and futhermore,more police who give a damn,then perhaps things may improve.
My contact with the police over cycling and motoring related reports always leaves me thinking,why did I bother
When I speak to other people it seems I'm not a alone in my thinking .
I've posted on here before of my daughter reporting two men cutting chains/locks off bikes parked at Sheffield stands in central Manchester and putting them into a plain white van(she even photographed them on her phone)which was met with complete indifference and never followed up.
I've seen people in uniforms but I wouldn't class them as police officers

[Elizabethsdad]

I did see this on the news this morning and when they put he question to the police officer they were interviewing he acknowledged they might not be able to immediatley act upon such calls if they came in but that it was still important to report them as it aids any follow up investigation and provides a log of times and locations were these offences might more frequently occur. I'm not the greatest fan of the police or the criminal justice system in general but if it is not reported at all nothing will definitely happen. And you can't in fairness criticise the police for not acting on a crime that hasn't been reported.

[thirdcrank]

That's true, of course, but there are all sorts of reasons why the police are otherwise engaged. In the present context, stunts like the one we are talking about are not the "Primary object of an efficient police."

We had another example here, last week - on 1 Nov. We had a knock on the door and as I went to answer it, I could see it was a police officer in uniform. I knew he wasn't trick or treating because it was the evening after hallowe'en. In common with most people, I associate unexpected visits from the police with bad tidings. This very pleasant chap apologised for ignoring my "NO COLD CALLERS" sign and explained that this was some sort of "getting to know you" initiative. There was another PC visiting the other side of the street. The main message seemed to be that our local neighbourhood policing team was now on Facebook.

Once I'd got over the initial shock of thinking the worst, I assured him of my support in the ceaseless fight against crime but I was left thinking it was a waste of time. Others may see it differently. I've posted before about an inspector from my early days whose catchphrase was "The mind boggles, Michael, the mind boggles." Had he been enjoying a break from playing his celestial harp, his mind would have been boggling then.

[Mark1978]

A few weeks ago I had my sat nav stolen from my (stupidly) unlocked car. I didn't want to phone the police as I didn't think it worth bothering, but I did anyway. And had to have them around my house twice - which was a pain as they kept asking to come around when I was at work. However! - They did catch the guy that did it! Seems he did about 20 cars, and only 6 people called the police.

Unfortunately he got a sentance of having to stay in the house after 7pm for a week.

[meic]

I dont suppose you got your SatNav back either did you.

The cynic in me keeps whispering "taken into consideration".

[thirdcrank]

We are talking about two different reasons for reporting something to the police. One is the all too frequent occurrence of finding you've been a victim of crime. I suspect that of the people who report this to the police, quite a lot just need a crime number to complete the insurance claim. With so much stuff lying arouind to be nicked these days, it's probably unrealistic to expect any police force to detect the crime or get the stuff back. (Especially when a lot of people don't bother recording serial numbers etc of their property.)

The other is when a member of the public witnesses a crime in progress. I'm not talking about things like a dog dumping on the pavement and the owner not clearing it up, but theft etc. Cases like that of r2's daughter discourage people. What's the point of taking the personal risk involved in going up to a couple of shady characters (who are presumably armed with boltcroppers or the like) and taking pics of their activities, if the police do not respond PDQ? Of course, there are public spirited people who persist, but if the case gets as far as court, that experience will almost certainly put them off next time.

[reohn2]

That's true, of course, but there are all sorts of reasons why the police are otherwise engaged. In the present context, stunts like the one we are talking about are not the "Primary object of an efficient police."

We had another example here, last week - on 1 Nov. We had a knock on the door and as I went to answer it, I could see it was a police officer in uniform. I knew he wasn't trick or treating because it was the evening after hallowe'en. In common with most people, I associate unexpected visits from the police with bad tidings. This very pleasant chap apologised for ignoring my "NO COLD CALLERS" sign and explained that this was some sort of "getting to know you" initiative. There was another PC visiting the other side of the street. The main message seemed to be that our local neighbourhood policing team was now on Facebook.

Once I'd got over the initial shock of thinking the worst, I assured him of my support in the ceaseless fight against crime but I was left thinking it was a waste of time. Others may see it differently. I've posted before about an inspector from my early days whose catchphrase was "The mind boggles, Michael, the mind boggles." Had he been enjoying a break from playing his celestial harp, his mind would have been boggling then.

Forgive me,but are you are saying that both these instances are in fact just PR exercises
Or put another way "all lace curtains and no sheets on the bed" ,or a more graphic description "fur coat and no knickers"

[thirdcrank]

Just before I retired, the Home Office came up with the idea that patrolling uniform police were a waste of time and money. I think this was partly based on the relatively small number of people caught "in the act" by uniform police patrols. This doesn't take account of deterrence, nor does it recognise what criminals certainly know, that panda car drivers dashing from call to call are not patrolling in any rational sense of the word.

The Home Office eventually rowed back a bit, with the introduction of PCSO's, but even if they reassure some members of the general public, the baddies know the score.

It's been notoriously difficult to measure police performance. Part of this is because it's hard to measure what's been prevented so detections have had to do instead.

It was decided that public satisfaction was a good performance indicator. Unfortunately, that's fickle. Alleged wrongdoing at Hillsborough over a couple of decades ago re-emerges and the public view of every force in the land goes down. Two officers are murdered in Manchester and public esteem soars. Apart from anything else, the public aren't interested what force name is on the buttons: they look for POLICE endov. Then there was supposed to have been more research that suggested that police in fiction influenced public attitudes. DI Frost has a good programme in spite of Supt Haddock or whatever they call him and that's great. A prisoner gets roughed up in The Bill and it's likely to be reported to the IPCC. It's only a short step to saying that these effects can be manipulated. Hence the introduction of well-publicised "initiatives."

A few years after I had retired, they were having problems at the church where my parents were married (in 1940) and I was chistened. Things like stones being thrown breaking windows (aggravated by this being during services so the congregation was showered with glass.) This type of thing went on for a while, until a lady in her nineties was robbed (ie handbag stolen accompanied by personal violence) when she was on her way into the church for a Sunday morning service. It made the local TV news. The "beat manager" AKA a local PC with somesuch title, explained that there had been "public reassurance" patrols, ie a couple of PCSO's had occasionally been down that way. The Vicar, who was interviewed at the scene simply reiterated that nothing had been done to protect his parishioners or his church and so he was not "reassured."

[reohn2]

There's nothing more likely to deter criminals than the chance of being caught,which is more likely when there are police about,in numbers.
There's no better way than getting the statistics down than people not reporting crime if they know nothing will be done about it
Unfortunately we have a government(and a previous one) that's of the latter persuasion IMHO

[snibgo]

Of course, it's essential that the police do things when we report crime. But we have to report it in the first place, and be prepared to follow it through. And that's not a simple or quick process.

I spent two hours giving a statement about an incident that took only ten minutes. I have to go and be a witness at one trial (or maybe two trials), not near where I live. The magistrates' guidelines for the alleged offences are that wrists be slapped.

I think it's worth it because if we don't report crime, it won't stop of its own accord. And evidence must be gathered properly, and defendants have the right to hear the evidence in court.

I dunno if I'll feel the same way when the process eventually completes.

[reohn2]

Of course, it's essential that the police do things when we report crime. But we have to report it in the first place, and be prepared to follow it through. And that's not a simple or quick process.

I spent two hours giving a statement about an incident that took only ten minutes. I have to go and be a witness at one trial (or maybe two trials), not near where I live. The magistrates' guidelines for the alleged offences are that wrists be slapped.

I think it's worth it because if we don't report crime, it won't stop of its own accord. And evidence must be gathered properly, and defendants have the right to hear the evidence in court.

I dunno if I'll feel the same way when the process eventually completes.

It certainly does and though anecdotal,on all six occasions I've reported crime where either my life or possibly others have been put in danger the police,though appearing interested and concerned have done little to follow up my complaints and on one occasion asked me to do their job for them.
Currently my family are awaiting an inquest regarding my grandaughter's untimely death at the hands of a lunatic on a motorcycle,we have been told by the police that this lunatic's bike had it's restrictor removed,and it's engine tuned for speed.
He had been reported on numerous occasions by local people and shopkeepers for doing the sort of antics(Speeding,dangerous riding,wheelies,donuts,etc) he was doing when he killed my grandaughter.
The police did nothing about these complaints,because they didn't catch him in the act,if this madman's bike had been checked over he could,with a more robust attitude by the judicial system have been removed from our roads.As it is he killed my grandaughter and himself in the bargain,the devastation can't be measured as a result.
Whilst he caused it all,he could have been stopped by good and decent policing and harsher sentencing for such offenders,both him and my grandaughter would still be alive today.
I don't lay all the blaim on the police for not preventing such trajedies but on a system so sick and stupid and lenient as to begger belief.

[snibgo]

I'll take this opportunity to say how very sorry I am about your granddaughter. The system has failed you.

[thirdcrank]

... Currently my family are awaiting an inquest regarding my grandaughter's untimely death at the hands of a lunatic on a motorcycle,we have been told by the police that this lunatic's bike had it's restrictor removed,and it's engine tuned for speed.
He had been reported on numerous occasions by local people and shopkeepers for doing the sort of antics(Speeding,dangerous riding,wheelies,donuts,etc) he was doing when he killed my grandaughter.
The police did nothing about these complaints,because they didn't catch him in the act, ....

Nothing will bring your grandaughter back, of course, but if you think more should be done to prevent something similar taking away other lives in future, you may want to take this further, if you have not done so already. In particular, don't rely on getting any sort of comfort from the inquest.

It may seem a bit pedantic but does

we have been told by the police

also include

He had been reported...

?

It shouldn't make any difference, but things which have been reported, logged and more or less ignored, are easier to establish than unverifiable assertions made later. People who have the volume up when talking to you may develop selective amnesia if there's any sort of inquiry into a complaint.

When the matter was still at the numerous reports of bad driving stage, if the police could not gather sufficient evidence for a prosecution, it seems to me that section 59 of the Police Reform Act 2002 was tailor-made to deal with it. It applies

(1)Where a constable in uniform has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle is being used on any occasion in a manner which—
(a)contravenes section 3 or 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) (careless and inconsiderate driving and prohibition of off-road driving), and
(b)is causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public,

If those circumstances apply the police have a power to warn the user of the vehicle to desist and if the warning is ignored, the police can seize the vehicle.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/30/section/59

By coincidence, the Police Reform Act 2002 also established the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/en/Pages/default.aspx

There are differing views about complaints. I'll just say that a complaint about a series of logged reports being ignored should be relatively straightforward for them to investigate.

[reohn2]

I'll take this opportunity to say how very sorry I am about your granddaughter.

Thankyou

The system has failed you.

It fails all too regularly IME and according to others it fails them too.