Thank you to the Mayor of Fareham

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Cunobelin
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Post by Cunobelin »

In reply:

What you haven't added is that the Chauffeur explained that the car was about to be moved and that it had been there less than 5 minutes.

The attitude of the driver was hardly an apology for his illegal and inconsiderate actions. However his attitude was perfectly illustrated by the images - no further illustration was needed - hence no mention.!


We believe you were on a recumbent bicycle which is wider than the average bike. An ordinary bike would have been able to get past.
Also I don't believe many cyclists safely negotiate that particular slope from Bath Lane Park without dismounting ,as it is so steep .


Easily performed on a trike, and also on any other bike, if taken with care. Providing the access isn't physically blocked!

This is also irrelevant - a wheelchair would also have been inconvenienced .


I regularly cycle around the ward and was instrumental in getting the new crossing on the A27 slip way near Deanes Park Road.

I was standing on the path in front of the Cricket Pavilion as you whizzed past. I did smile and say good evening, but you ignored me, as did some other cyclists, but not all. You could have taken the chance there and then to complain about the parking of the car if you were concerned. That pathway is for pedestrians as well as cyclists, but a number of cyclist flew by that evening with apparent disregard for the people standing around. Of course they might have been confident in their own skill, but I nearly banged into one as I turned around as there was no warning of approach.
That path is for pedestrians and cyclists and there were several young and adult cricketers around at the time.


Firstly I did not "whizz past"" according to my GPS I was doing between 3 - 4 mph throughout this section!

There is no choice but to travel slowly, mainly due to the fact that the Cricket Club were (as is their usual practice) setting up their tables, chairs and other bit and pieces on the cycle track. Their normal practice does not leave space for cyclists to pass safely - the width is frequently closed down to less than eighteen inches at the point where the score board is placed onto the path.


I no longer even contemplate this area on a Saturday afternoon as it is impassible by cycle due to the level of obstruction. It would appear that I have to add Wednesdays to the list of unusable days.

I am a great supporter of cycling but also receive a lot of complaints about cyclists on pavements whizzing by with no warning.

Obviously I am sorry that you were inconvenienced by the Mayoral Car and apologise for the brief time it was there, but I do think you missed an opportunity to talk to me directly about the problem. So if the car was likely to have been there for any length of time, which it wasn't, you could have ensured that it was speedily removed by tackling me at the time. Instead of which you ignored me and have taken the opportinity to give misleading information on a National Website.


Misleading - in what way, was the car not there?

Ensuring the car was removed is not the point - it shouldn't have been there in the first place

Obviously you have shown the photographic evidence that the car was there, but have not given the additional information that you did not take the opportunity to complain to the Mayor and get anything done about it, or that it was there for less than 5 minutes.I cannot help feeling that if you were so concerned you could and should have taken that opportunity to talk to me instead of whizzing past. I was very obvious dressed in bright pink and wearing the Mayoral Chain.



Perhaps the reason I was not "conversational" is that this area is a series of hazards, and I was paying attention to avoiding a series of unnecessary obstructions including desks and chairs.

I was more concerned in negotiating the hazards than trying to pick out any individuals from the some 20 people standing and sitting on the "shared use cycle facility"
nuttycyclist
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Re: Mayor of Fareham

Post by nuttycyclist »

jim_wks wrote:I asked the mayor for a comment, she's a friend of mine; but sanybody could have done so. Here it is. I'm a RTR rep for Fareham, hence my involvement.
"J<snip>
We believe you were on a recumbent bicycle which is wider than the average bike. An ordinary bike would have been able to get past.
<snip>

Yours sincerely,
Katrina Trott"

Anybody got any comments, perhaps it wasn't the man on the recumbent.
Jim


1) I believed an "ordinary bike" was otherwise known as a penny farthing. Why are they expecting those to be ridden there?

2) I ride a recumbent TRIKE quite often. It's narrower than a typical bicycle with panniers as seen most days on the roads.




Simple comment, if a road was obstructed in any way complaints would be made. Why are cycle paths allowed to be obstructed and explained away as "we were only there five minutes"?

Yes cyclists need to take care if the farcilities the council provide are below standard and endanger pedestrians, but at the same time allowing one's chauffeur to obstruct all users of a route is just not cricket.
Tallis the Tortoise

Post by Tallis the Tortoise »

What about an "ordinary" bike with a trailer trying to get by?

I will leave aside the fact that "ordinary" also refers to a penny farthing

If it was for such a short time, would they be happy to obstruct motorists for the samne length of time? And it certainly doesn't look like a steep sloe that warants dismounting to me, though I may be missing something from the photos.

It seems very tabloid journalist style that letter. Whatr on Earth has the behaviour of other cyclists got to do with whether or not the mayor should obstruct the legal passage of lawe abiding cyclists?

Andy :-)
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Cunobelin
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Post by Cunobelin »

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/fareham-and-meon?articleid=3078607

The argument about bike / trike is a red herring to avoid the responsibility

Wheelchairs and pushchairs would also be unable to get through this gap...

One question though...............


Now that the Mayor has stated publicly that this cycle facility is too steep to be used by an average cyclist - can we hope that she will be asking for remedial work to make it "fit for purpose".
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meic
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Post by meic »

An interesting concept. If a piece of route is difficult to negotiate, you help out by blocking it completly for 5 minutes.
Complaints not accepted electronically, only in person at the time.

It would have been interesting to read that news story."Rude cyclist inteupts Mayor's official function to complain about parked car"
Tallis the Tortoise

Post by Tallis the Tortoise »

Also, does the mayor really need such a large car? Would not something smaller and more environmentally friendly do the job?

Andy :-)
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horizon
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Post by horizon »

A bicycle perhaps? Or a tandem with chauffeur? :D
reohn2

Post by reohn2 »

Joking apart,it never fail to amaze me that the class system is still alive and kicking(mainly us) in this septic isle of ours.
That attitude of a growing minority toward cyclists is appalling,the same people would have a fit if they were called racist, for example.
steviep

Post by steviep »

Those local to the area may be interested to hear that Fareham Borough Council and its mayor have been mentioned in the local press again; this time about the subject of young cyclists on pavements:

TWO young brothers have hit out at inadequate cycle paths that force them to ride their bikes on busy roads.
Harry Haden-Brown, 13, and his 11-year-old brother Freddie were told not to ride on the pavement by Fareham mayoress Katrina Trott when they were cycling along Wickham Road.

But the notoriously busy stretch of the A32 – which runs along the top of St Christopher's Avenue where the boys live – doesn't have a designated cycle path and now the family is demanding one be installed.

Harry said: 'I do feel daunted riding on that stretch of road, particularly when big lorries come hurtling past. I don't think it is particularly safe to ride on the road as there are a lot of really big lorries.

'I think there should be more cycle lanes because it seems that cyclists are classed lower than other people.

'There are not that many cycle paths, and I think it is quite important that people use bikes instead of cars.

'But I don't think they will all the time they are made to feel unsafe.'

The road is a major route from Gosport through the centre of Fareham borough.

But council bosses say there is not enough money to fund more cycle paths.

Cllr Trott said: 'It is a concern that I am well aware of but unfortunately everything comes down to money and priorities. It is a matter of trying to balance the different issues. And even if we had enough money where in Wickham Road would we put them? Already there is a problem with motorists parking on the pavement because of lack of space.'

Fareham Borough Council's policy is that cyclists are not allowed on the pavement – even youngsters. Cllr Trott added: 'I appreciate the concerns of cyclists but there is not enough money and not enough space. Pedestrians don't want cyclists to ride on the pavement because of a small minority who do not ride responsibly.'

Hampshire County Council, which is responsible for the road, said there are no plans to add a cycle route.


http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/fareham-and ... id=3121915

As Cllr Trott says that she likes to hear from people, I fired off an email last night, pointing out that while it may be technically illegal for any cyclist to ride on the pavement, police tend to turn a blind eye when it comes to under-aged riders, using their common sense to realise that most of the time, it's safer for nippers to do so.

Unsurprisingly, I've yet to receive a reply from either the mayor or the "head" of the council, Sean Woodward. Ho hum....
mhara

Post by mhara »

Grrrrr :evil:
Is it a coincidence that this is a traditional Tory stronghold where, at the 2006 local elections the true blue leader was able to unashamedly crow that even their crummy attitude to bus passes for the elderly didn't dent their majority?

Seems cyclists are not the only vulnerable section of community getting shafted.

Never mind London - Boris Johnson should go to Fareham and sort them out first :twisted:
steviep

Post by steviep »

mhara wrote:Grrrrr :evil:
Is it a coincidence that this is a traditional Tory stronghold where, at the 2006 local elections the true blue leader was able to unashamedly crow that even their crummy attitude to bus passes for the elderly didn't dent their majority?

Seems cyclists are not the only vulnerable section of community getting shafted.

Never mind London - Boris Johnson should go to Fareham and sort them out first :twisted:


It may be a tory stronghold, but that doesn't mean to say that they're popular, only that there isn't an effective opposition at present. However, I feel that this might be their twilight years. Mind you, Cllr Trott is a Lib Dem; with her track record, would they be any better?

It certainly requires someone more enlightened to show the way forward, that's for sure. Fareham is becoming more and more traffic clogged by the year, and car drivers seem to be the only favoured beneficiaries of any infrastructure planning "improvements".
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Cunobelin
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Post by Cunobelin »

Let's not detract from this by maiking it "party political" matter.

I would have reporeted this vehicle whatever colour, party or political persuasion the Mayor was. It is the credibility of the post of Mayor, and responsibility that is attached to the Office itself that is assumed when taking office, regardless of the politics of the individual.


What did amuse me though was that the Council is unable (or unwilling) to deal with illegally parked vehicles onthis road, but is brave enough to tackle two young boys.


Now wouldn't "The Mayor of Fareham tells two drivers not to park on the pavement" have been a much better headline!
steviep

Post by steviep »

Cunobelin wrote:Let's not detract from this by maiking it "party political" matter.


Hi Cunobelin; I'm sure we've met before on the defunct CPlus forum. :D

I wasn't attempting to make this political; personally, I think Fareham is one of those places when the car will always be king, no matter which of The Big Three get in.

I've had a reply to my mail, not from the mayor but from a transport chief:

Dear Mr Peters,

I have been passed your e-mail to Cllr Mrs Trott for response.

The Council’s approach to cycling on footways is set out in its Cycle Strategy. Cyclists are advised that they should “Always follow the Highway Code”. The Highway Code published by Department of Transport sets out rules for using the public highway some of which, if disobeyed, mean the rider is committing a criminal offence. Cycling on the footway is one identified as such.

The law as far as cycling on the pavement is concerned, as set out in the web sites you refer to, is that it is an offence. The police own web site (PNLD) confirms that statement. The law makes no exemption for children. Whilst there are a number of web sites advising on cycling, these all recognise that cycling on the footway is an offence.

The web sites you refer to in your e-mail highlight the dangers of cyclists to pedestrians. However, having said that, there is recognition on those web sites that some dispensation for young children is beneficial in the interest of road safety. The Government web site as you point out suggests that under 10’s should not ride on the road. None of the sites are clear about the implementation of the law in respect of under 16’s, to whom a fixed penalty notice cannot be issued. RoSPA suggest a change in the law to cover young children without being specific about the age that relates to. It becomes a police enforcement policy matter to interpret the law in respect of children cycling on pavements. In these circumstances Fareham Borough Council is unable to make decisions on exemption from the law.

Cycling on the footway poses danger, concern and fear to pedestrians, particularly to elderly or disabled ones. Whilst it may not be possible to issue a fixed penalty notice to children under 16, they are still committing an offence in law.

The approach by the Police and ACSO’s (Accredited Community Safety Officers) who use discretion, provides a reasonable balance. They will stop cyclists riding on the pavement and talk to them about their actions issuing Penalty Notices where appropriate and in respect of children advise them of the law. They will on repeat occurrences of the offence by older children send a letter to their parents advising of the offences.

Finally on the matter of provision of a cycleway along Wickham Road , Hampshire County Council, the Highway Authority undertook a study of cycling in 2002/3. In that study Wickham Road was not identified as being in need of a cycleway, and was therefore not included in cycleways proposed in the near future or in their future funding plans. In these circumstances it is unlikely that a cycleway will be provided by Hampshire County Council, the Highway Authority, in the foreseeable future.

Yours sincerely

Andy Viccars
Head of Engineering and Transportation
Fareham Borough Council


basically repeating pretty much what I'd said in the first place! :roll:
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Cunobelin
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Post by Cunobelin »

Cycling on the footway poses danger, concern and fear to pedestrians, particularly to elderly or disabled ones. Whilst it may not be possible to issue a fixed penalty notice to children under 16, they are still committing an offence in law.





........and illegal parking doesn't pose danger, concern and fear to pedestrians, particularly to elderly or disabled ones.

I wonder how many "fixed penalty notices" have been issued to illegally parked cars on this road.
FatBat
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Post by FatBat »

Cycling on the footway poses danger, concern and fear to pedestrians, particularly to elderly or disabled ones.


But, if a blue sign is posted on said pavement, suddenly cycling on it does not pose danger, concern and fear to pedestrians, and cyclists should be encouraged to ride on it, regardless of how fast they want to go. Obvious, innit???
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