30kmh – making streets liveable

reohn2
Posts: 35853
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: 30kmh – making streets liveable

Postby reohn2 » 14 Jan 2013, 6:50pm

Shootist wrote:.........In my case, the road was for all practical purposes empty. It was daylight, visibility was good, weather was fine. The locale was agricultural, with no likely location for pedestrians to appear. By maintaining a very high level of concentration I could anticipate and thus observe in good time any likely hazard to a sufficient degree as to be sufficiently safe to drive at the speed I did...........


Badgers,Foxes,Hares,sheep,Cattle,Horses, even a low flying Buzzard,all have immaculate road sense :?
hexhome wrote:You my friend are exactly the type of person who needs to be restrained by speed limits and the law!

Quite! but if someone's highly trained nothing can possibly go wrong.............can it? :?
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

reohn2
Posts: 35853
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: 30kmh – making streets liveable

Postby reohn2 » 14 Jan 2013, 6:57pm

Mick F wrote:
Shootist wrote: So, whenever you are driving down a normal urban road where there are pedestrians on the pavement, in normal light traffic flow conditions, do you slow down to 20 mph, or 15 mph in case a pedestrian decides to do something stupid, causing a collision it would be impossible for you to avoid?
Yes.
Don't you?

Apart from the danger, it's impolite and rude to go past peds at 30mph. Treat them with respect and kindness. Treat them in a manner you would like to be treated.

spot on!
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

belgiangoth
Posts: 1259
Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 4:10pm

Re: 30kmh – making streets liveable

Postby belgiangoth » 21 Apr 2013, 10:43pm

I grew up in Belgium. For the first 18 years of my life speed limits were not enforced on motorways and people drove at 200-220 kph.
Then, in the space of two years they started enforcing speed limits.

We can back this motion and ten hope that the law gets enforced, or we can not back this motion and then not have a moral highground/case in law to assault PCCs/councillors/MPs/motorists with.
If I had a baby elephant I would let it sleep in the garage in place of the car. If I had either a garage or a car. (I miss sigs about baby elephants)

xerxes
Posts: 12
Joined: 10 May 2013, 7:22pm

Re: 30kmh – making streets liveable

Postby xerxes » 10 May 2013, 7:28pm

30 miles per hour is plenty slow enough, providing motorists stick to it. The problem with a 20mph/30kph limit is that it has motorists creeping along in low gears, wasting fuel and creating even more pollution - as if cars weren't inefficient enough already !

What is needed is not lower speed limits, but stricter enforcement of existing limits together with more severe penalties. If for instance a single speeding offence carried an instant ban, it would soon change driving habits. Speeding seems to have a 'laddish' culture associated with it - even supposedly responsible organisations such as the AA campaign against speeding regulations (e.g. their campaign to ensure all speed cameras are clearly marked). This needs to change.

At one time, drink driving was regarded in a similar gung-ho fashion. Since the introduction of the breathalyser, opinions have gradually changed, and now drink drivers are generally regarded as pariahs, not much higher in the social order than child molesters and rapists. We need to encourage a similar attitude towards those who break the speed limit.

belgiangoth
Posts: 1259
Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 4:10pm

Re: 30kmh – making streets liveable

Postby belgiangoth » 10 May 2013, 8:23pm

30 mph in a school zone is too fast, same for a busy park area - especially since both will have cars parked into the road on both sides, meaning room for only one car and drivers' view of small children crossing obscured.
If I had a baby elephant I would let it sleep in the garage in place of the car. If I had either a garage or a car. (I miss sigs about baby elephants)

User avatar
gentlegreen
Posts: 1359
Joined: 23 Aug 2010, 1:58pm
Location: Bristol
Contact:

Re: 30kmh – making streets liveable

Postby gentlegreen » 11 May 2013, 3:36am

I'll often cycle faster than I would drive on a given road because my killing potential is much less and I am much more aware of my surroundings.
I get claustrophobic just thinking about driving - it amazes me how people so easily get into doing it every day.

gordy
Posts: 246
Joined: 2 Feb 2008, 10:29pm

Re: 30kmh – making streets liveable

Postby gordy » 11 May 2013, 6:42am

If I was in charge, I'd ban brake lights on all motor vehicles.

At a stroke, IMHO, that would make life much more pleasant for the communities currently blighted and held to ransom by motor traffic and drivers.

Mark1978
Posts: 4912
Joined: 17 Jul 2012, 8:47am
Location: Chester-le-Street, County Durham

Re: 30kmh – making streets liveable

Postby Mark1978 » 11 May 2013, 9:37am

Agreed that we don't really need lower limits. Just strict enforcement of existing ones.

Someone above seemed to advocate chicanes and road narrowing etc. Which is good for pedestrians, but for cyclists there's little worse!

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 46353
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: 30kmh – making streets liveable

Postby Mick F » 11 May 2013, 9:57am

gordy wrote:If I was in charge, I'd ban brake lights on all motor vehicles.
This idea has some merit.
If vehicle didn't have them, people would keep further back - wouldn't they?
This would then make them slower?

On a humorous note, if they did away with air bags and replaced them with spikes, if you have an accident, you get stabbed! :D
Mick F. Cornwall

User avatar
patricktaylor
Posts: 2299
Joined: 11 Jun 2008, 11:20am
Location: Winter Hill
Contact:

Re: 30kmh – making streets liveable

Postby patricktaylor » 11 May 2013, 11:51am

Mick F wrote:
gordy wrote:If I was in charge, I'd ban brake lights on all motor vehicles.
This idea has some merit.
If vehicle didn't have them, people would keep further back - wouldn't they?
This would then make them slower? ...

Not necessarily slower, just further back. Getting up to the same speed but with bigger gaps - lines of cars take up more space, queues are slower to get moving, slower to stop, more delays. Or something... but not generally slower (that's just my guess).

reohn2
Posts: 35853
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: 30kmh – making streets liveable

Postby reohn2 » 11 May 2013, 1:05pm

C'mon chaps let's be real switching of brake lights is daft in the extreme,how a people behind going to know when the traffic has stopped,especially when texting? :?

20mph speed are very appropriate in some places,town centres,housing estates,etc.Also some national speed limits are plainly ridiculous on most rural country lanes,etc.

The problem is the expectation that nothing should ever impede the almighty motor vehicle,by a growing element of drivers and more so with a lack law enforcement fortified by the fact that,even in the slimmest chances of ever being caught the penalty will be no more than a slap on the wrist :? .
The elephant in the room is speed,the second one is responsibility.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

Edwards
Posts: 5978
Joined: 16 Mar 2007, 10:09pm
Location: Birmingham

Re: 30kmh – making streets liveable

Postby Edwards » 11 May 2013, 1:10pm

Around here most residential roads need a 30kph/20mph speed limits, the biggest bonus is that it would only need one car to travel at the desired speed and the rest of the antisocial, selfish, life ruining things would be stuck behind them.
The roads are not wide enough to allow for overtaking. If they need to get their fix and travel faster than they are really able, then they can use the 40mph Dual Carriageways that go around this housing estates.

There will always be some fools that thinks that they are "Too Good" for speed limits. But as people get used to slower vehicle passing their house maybe they will start throwing things at the cars going to fast for the safety of the people living there.
The residents should decide the speed not the driver.
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar

gordy
Posts: 246
Joined: 2 Feb 2008, 10:29pm

Re: 30kmh – making streets liveable

Postby gordy » 11 May 2013, 3:21pm

Edwards wrote:The residents should decide the speed not the driver.


Absolutely. I've never understood why speed discussions and decisions have anything to do with motorists at all - the community should decide what they are prepared to accept.

thirdcrank
Posts: 28648
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: 30kmh – making streets liveable

Postby thirdcrank » 11 May 2013, 4:38pm

One problem is that it's often the residents who drive fastest, perhaps through a combination of familiarity with local roads and an assumption that they somehow own the street.

I live in a cul-de-sac off another cu-de-sac and I see this all the time.

I think it's often the case that when there's enforcement following residents' representations, that it's the locals who get caught. (That's probably partly caused by the locals in an area tending to be the most numerous, not just the effect I'm suggesting.)

I can't see any other basis for setting speed limits than technical ones: eg poor sightlines, residential area, are things which should dictate low speeds; motorway conditions enable faster traffic.

reohn2
Posts: 35853
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: 30kmh – making streets liveable

Postby reohn2 » 11 May 2013, 5:16pm

^^^ Spot on!
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.