Laws on ASLs clarified

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 43592
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Laws on ASLs clarified

Postby Mick F » 20 Jun 2013, 7:35am

This is a similar conundrum.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=saltash ... .1,,0,3.52
If you look at this junction in Saltash, you'll see two cars parked on the pavemented area in front of the security shop.

When they drive away, how do they obey the traffic lights?
What would they do if they were bicycles instead of cars?
Mick F. Cornwall

User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 16697
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Laws on ASLs clarified

Postby [XAP]Bob » 20 Jun 2013, 7:37am

Mick F wrote:This is a similar conundrum.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=saltash ... .1,,0,3.52
If you look at this junction in Saltash, you'll see two cars parked on the pavemented area in front of the security shop.

When they drive away, how do they obey the traffic lights?
What would they do if they were bicycles instead of cars?

Treat is as a "cede priority" junction...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 43592
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Laws on ASLs clarified

Postby Mick F » 20 Jun 2013, 7:47am

Yes, I know, but what's the legality?
It's the same thing as going through a red light if you come off a cycle track beyond the stop line.
Mick F. Cornwall

kwackers
Posts: 12248
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Laws on ASLs clarified

Postby kwackers » 20 Jun 2013, 8:29am

[XAP]Bob wrote:Of course you may feel it prudent to take up a "virtual ASL" position and just wait.

Which is basically how I behave. I'm sure there's a world of pain in there somewhere if you're spotted by a jobsworth though.

(Some junctions though don't have a set of lights on the far side which would make that difficult)

User avatar
ArMoRothair
Posts: 351
Joined: 20 Jun 2013, 10:55am
Location: Londinium

Re: Laws on ASLs clarified

Postby ArMoRothair » 22 Jun 2013, 10:33am

iviehoff wrote:
thirdcrank wrote: But I sometimes think all the lights have been installed precisely to make progress very slow and encourage people to be somewhere else. It is hardly surprising that cyclists give up and RLJ when they are spending over half their travel time stationary at lights,


I commuted daily for eight years from Camden to Vauxhall. One day, in a fit of frustration at the growing number of new lights on my route, I sat down and counted them. Over the period I was doing that commute their number had doubled.

Yes it is as if there is a deliberate policy to frustrate road users, presumably aimed at motor vehicles but cyclists get caught in it too.

Pete Owens
Posts: 1418
Joined: 7 Jul 2008, 12:52am

Re: Laws on ASLs clarified

Postby Pete Owens » 22 Jun 2013, 2:22pm

Mick F wrote:This is a similar conundrum.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=saltash ... .1,,0,3.52
If you look at this junction in Saltash, you'll see two cars parked on the pavemented area in front of the security shop.

When they drive away, how do they obey the traffic lights?
What would they do if they were bicycles instead of cars?


If they drive anywhere at all, whatever the colour of the lights, then they will be breaking the law re driving on the footway.
If they were cycles the they should be wheeled to the carriageway behind the stop line then start riding when the lights turn green.

User avatar
gaz
Posts: 13235
Joined: 9 Mar 2007, 12:09pm
Location: Kent, car park of England

Re: Laws on ASLs clarified

Postby gaz » 22 Jun 2013, 2:40pm

Mick F wrote:...If you look at this junction in Saltash, you'll see two cars parked on the pavemented area in front of the security shop...


I'm looking at the junction http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=saltash ... .1,,0,3.52, what cars? :wink:
Hand wash only. Do not iron.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 11485
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Laws on ASLs clarified

Postby mjr » 30 Nov 2018, 11:36am

TonyR wrote:The Met police have clarified the law on ASLs and its about as useful as their advice on cycling through the gates of Downing St. Reporting of offences require video footage of the motor vehicle crossing the first white line on red and cyclists must use the killer lane up the inside of waiting traffic to get into the ASL.
http://cycleinjury.co.uk/news/2013/02/2 ... y-law-asls

This is just a footnote for future readers that this bonkers quirk of law was finally tidied up by making the stop line before the cycle symbol not apply to cycles, since 2016's https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... ph/30/made if not before, so you can now ride into an ASL anywhere, lead-in lane or not, as you like.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

MikeF
Posts: 3590
Joined: 11 Nov 2012, 9:24am
Location: On the borders of the four South East Counties

Re: Laws on ASLs clarified

Postby MikeF » 30 Nov 2018, 8:37pm

mjr wrote:
TonyR wrote:The Met police have clarified the law on ASLs and its about as useful as their advice on cycling through the gates of Downing St. Reporting of offences require video footage of the motor vehicle crossing the first white line on red and cyclists must use the killer lane up the inside of waiting traffic to get into the ASL.
http://cycleinjury.co.uk/news/2013/02/2 ... y-law-asls

This is just a footnote for future readers that this bonkers quirk of law was finally tidied up by making the stop line before the cycle symbol not apply to cycles, since 2016's https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... ph/30/made if not before, so you can now ride into an ASL anywhere, lead-in lane or not, as you like.

Thanks for that update.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

kwackers
Posts: 12248
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Laws on ASLs clarified

Postby kwackers » 30 Nov 2018, 8:56pm

MikeF wrote:Thanks for that update.

Indeed.

Just the other day by force of habit I moved left a foot or so as I rolled into the box to use the 'access' point and then moved back right once in the box whilst rolling to a stop at the red light and was given a friendly beep by the following bus who also wanted to make use of the ASL.

As a Clark Kent alike I manoeuvred my bicycle around to the drivers window to politely ask him if he realised the stop line was in fact 'back there'.

He politely replied that 'indeed he did' but that 'there was no way he was going to stop there and thus allow a cyclist to put themselves in harms way by being in front of his bus'.

I thanked him for his time and consideration and rotated my bike through 90 degrees such that it was directly in front of him where he could admire the rear camera - I pointed it out to him since I thought he'd appreciate it and he gave it what I think was a thumbs up although given when he later passed me I fear he was less friendly since he gave me quite a wide berth, so I've no idea what I did to upset him.

User avatar
The utility cyclist
Posts: 1854
Joined: 22 Aug 2016, 12:28pm

Re: Laws on ASLs clarified

Postby The utility cyclist » 5 Dec 2018, 5:42pm

I have never adopted the entering the ASL from the left unless it was the easiest/safest route, I've always gone with what I thought was the safest entry followed by most convenient, that the rules changed had no bearing on my thinking. In fact I don't even think I was aware of the rule for some years, and when I was I never gave it a moments thought.

It was always a dumb and dangerous rule, as is the thinking that it's okay for motors to be in the ASL at all unless passing through.
Either the way ahead is clear enough to exit before the lights change or it isn't, if it's not clear to exit ahead then you should not wait in the ASL, it's lazy and at best inconsiderate driving.

SA_SA_SA
Posts: 1677
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 1:46pm

Re: Laws on ASLs clarified

Postby SA_SA_SA » 17 Dec 2018, 5:18pm

mjr wrote:...This is just a footnote for future readers that this bonkers quirk of law was finally tidied up by making the stop line before the cycle symbol not apply to cycles, since 2016's https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... ph/30/made if not before, so you can now ride into an ASL anywhere, lead-in lane or not, as you like.

That seems to only mention all of Great Britain, with no mention of poor old
Norn-Ireland as far as I can see.. :( . Or am I missing something.
------------You may not use this post in Cycle or other magazine ------ 8)

User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 16697
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Laws on ASLs clarified

Postby [XAP]Bob » 20 Dec 2018, 10:40am

mjr wrote:
TonyR wrote:The Met police have clarified the law on ASLs and its about as useful as their advice on cycling through the gates of Downing St. Reporting of offences require video footage of the motor vehicle crossing the first white line on red and cyclists must use the killer lane up the inside of waiting traffic to get into the ASL.
http://cycleinjury.co.uk/news/2013/02/2 ... y-law-asls

This is just a footnote for future readers that this bonkers quirk of law was finally tidied up by making the stop line before the cycle symbol not apply to cycles, since 2016's https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... ph/30/made if not before, so you can now ride into an ASL anywhere, lead-in lane or not, as you like.



I had completely missed that - thank you!
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 11485
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Laws on ASLs clarified

Postby mjr » 20 Dec 2018, 11:39am

SA_SA_SA wrote:
mjr wrote:...This is just a footnote for future readers that this bonkers quirk of law was finally tidied up by making the stop line before the cycle symbol not apply to cycles, since 2016's https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... ph/30/made if not before, so you can now ride into an ASL anywhere, lead-in lane or not, as you like.

That seems to only mention all of Great Britain, with no mention of poor old
Norn-Ireland as far as I can see.. :( . Or am I missing something.

NI has its own regulations. https://www.infrastructure-ni.gov.uk/pu ... g-cyclists is the current authorisation for ASLs since 2014. Even though a vestigal dashed entry line is shown on the left, the wording is similar to the 2016 GB one and doesn't require one to cycle through it.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

SA_SA_SA
Posts: 1677
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 1:46pm

Re: Laws on ASLs clarified

Postby SA_SA_SA » 29 Dec 2018, 9:32pm

mjr wrote:.....NI has its own regulations. https://www.infrastructure-ni.gov.uk/pu ... g-cyclists is the current authorisation for ASLs since 2014.....

Thanks for that link.
------------You may not use this post in Cycle or other magazine ------ 8)