Cycling UK Forum

This is a similar conundrum.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=saltash ... .1,,0,3.52
If you look at this junction in Saltash, you'll see two cars parked on the pavemented area in front of the security shop.

When they drive away, how do they obey the traffic lights?
What would they do if they were bicycles instead of cars?

Mick F wrote:This is a similar conundrum.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=saltash ... .1,,0,3.52
If you look at this junction in Saltash, you'll see two cars parked on the pavemented area in front of the security shop.

When they drive away, how do they obey the traffic lights?
What would they do if they were bicycles instead of cars?

Treat is as a "cede priority" junction...

Yes, I know, but what's the legality?
It's the same thing as going through a red light if you come off a cycle track beyond the stop line.

[XAP]Bob wrote:Of course you may feel it prudent to take up a "virtual ASL" position and just wait.

Which is basically how I behave. I'm sure there's a world of pain in there somewhere if you're spotted by a jobsworth though.

(Some junctions though don't have a set of lights on the far side which would make that difficult)

iviehoff wrote:

thirdcrank wrote: But I sometimes think all the lights have been installed precisely to make progress very slow and encourage people to be somewhere else. It is hardly surprising that cyclists give up and RLJ when they are spending over half their travel time stationary at lights,

I commuted daily for eight years from Camden to Vauxhall. One day, in a fit of frustration at the growing number of new lights on my route, I sat down and counted them. Over the period I was doing that commute their number had doubled.

Yes it is as if there is a deliberate policy to frustrate road users, presumably aimed at motor vehicles but cyclists get caught in it too.

Mick F wrote:This is a similar conundrum.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=saltash ... .1,,0,3.52
If you look at this junction in Saltash, you'll see two cars parked on the pavemented area in front of the security shop.

When they drive away, how do they obey the traffic lights?
What would they do if they were bicycles instead of cars?

If they drive anywhere at all, whatever the colour of the lights, then they will be breaking the law re driving on the footway.
If they were cycles the they should be wheeled to the carriageway behind the stop line then start riding when the lights turn green.

Mick F wrote:...If you look at this junction in Saltash, you'll see two cars parked on the pavemented area in front of the security shop...

I'm looking at the junction http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=saltash ... .1,,0,3.52, what cars?

TonyR wrote:The Met police have clarified the law on ASLs and its about as useful as their advice on cycling through the gates of Downing St. Reporting of offences require video footage of the motor vehicle crossing the first white line on red and cyclists must use the killer lane up the inside of waiting traffic to get into the ASL.
http://cycleinjury.co.uk/news/2013/02/2 ... y-law-asls

This is just a footnote for future readers that this bonkers quirk of law was finally tidied up by making the stop line before the cycle symbol not apply to cycles, since 2016's https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... ph/30/made if not before, so you can now ride into an ASL anywhere, lead-in lane or not, as you like.

mjr wrote:

TonyR wrote:The Met police have clarified the law on ASLs and its about as useful as their advice on cycling through the gates of Downing St. Reporting of offences require video footage of the motor vehicle crossing the first white line on red and cyclists must use the killer lane up the inside of waiting traffic to get into the ASL.
http://cycleinjury.co.uk/news/2013/02/2 ... y-law-asls

This is just a footnote for future readers that this bonkers quirk of law was finally tidied up by making the stop line before the cycle symbol not apply to cycles, since 2016's https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... ph/30/made if not before, so you can now ride into an ASL anywhere, lead-in lane or not, as you like.

Thanks for that update.

MikeF wrote:Thanks for that update.

Indeed.

Just the other day by force of habit I moved left a foot or so as I rolled into the box to use the 'access' point and then moved back right once in the box whilst rolling to a stop at the red light and was given a friendly beep by the following bus who also wanted to make use of the ASL.

As a Clark Kent alike I manoeuvred my bicycle around to the drivers window to politely ask him if he realised the stop line was in fact 'back there'.

He politely replied that 'indeed he did' but that 'there was no way he was going to stop there and thus allow a cyclist to put themselves in harms way by being in front of his bus'.

I thanked him for his time and consideration and rotated my bike through 90 degrees such that it was directly in front of him where he could admire the rear camera - I pointed it out to him since I thought he'd appreciate it and he gave it what I think was a thumbs up although given when he later passed me I fear he was less friendly since he gave me quite a wide berth, so I've no idea what I did to upset him.

I have never adopted the entering the ASL from the left unless it was the easiest/safest route, I've always gone with what I thought was the safest entry followed by most convenient, that the rules changed had no bearing on my thinking. In fact I don't even think I was aware of the rule for some years, and when I was I never gave it a moments thought.

It was always a dumb and dangerous rule, as is the thinking that it's okay for motors to be in the ASL at all unless passing through.
Either the way ahead is clear enough to exit before the lights change or it isn't, if it's not clear to exit ahead then you should not wait in the ASL, it's lazy and at best inconsiderate driving.

mjr wrote:...This is just a footnote for future readers that this bonkers quirk of law was finally tidied up by making the stop line before the cycle symbol not apply to cycles, since 2016's https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... ph/30/made if not before, so you can now ride into an ASL anywhere, lead-in lane or not, as you like.

That seems to only mention all of Great Britain, with no mention of poor old
Norn-Ireland as far as I can see.. . Or am I missing something.

mjr wrote:

TonyR wrote:The Met police have clarified the law on ASLs and its about as useful as their advice on cycling through the gates of Downing St. Reporting of offences require video footage of the motor vehicle crossing the first white line on red and cyclists must use the killer lane up the inside of waiting traffic to get into the ASL.
http://cycleinjury.co.uk/news/2013/02/2 ... y-law-asls

This is just a footnote for future readers that this bonkers quirk of law was finally tidied up by making the stop line before the cycle symbol not apply to cycles, since 2016's https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... ph/30/made if not before, so you can now ride into an ASL anywhere, lead-in lane or not, as you like.

I had completely missed that - thank you!

SA_SA_SA wrote:

mjr wrote:...This is just a footnote for future readers that this bonkers quirk of law was finally tidied up by making the stop line before the cycle symbol not apply to cycles, since 2016's https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... ph/30/made if not before, so you can now ride into an ASL anywhere, lead-in lane or not, as you like.

That seems to only mention all of Great Britain, with no mention of poor old
Norn-Ireland as far as I can see.. . Or am I missing something.

NI has its own regulations. https://www.infrastructure-ni.gov.uk/pu ... g-cyclists is the current authorisation for ASLs since 2014. Even though a vestigal dashed entry line is shown on the left, the wording is similar to the 2016 GB one and doesn't require one to cycle through it.

mjr wrote:.....NI has its own regulations. https://www.infrastructure-ni.gov.uk/pu ... g-cyclists is the current authorisation for ASLs since 2014.....

Thanks for that link.