Hate crime extension

[landsurfer]

We have all the laws we need to address crime against cyclists;
Assault
Common Assault
Transient Assault
Assault with a weapon
and on and on.

Hate crime does not exist, only crime.
If my gay son is assaulted and called a poof it is assault nothing else.
Inventing new names for old crimes is a sop to the LMC and the snowflakes of this world.
"I'm special, if you hit me it's a hate crime" .... Nonsense .. it's assault !!!

If the police will not prosecute with the laws in place what makes anyone think they will prosecute with yet another "law" ???

[Vorpal]

If the police will not prosecute with the laws in place what makes anyone think they will prosecute with yet another "law" ???

Well, that's a good point, though they do seem to take (potential) hate crimes somewhat more seriously than others.

[landsurfer]

If the police will not prosecute with the laws in place what makes anyone think they will prosecute with yet another "law" ???

Well, that's a good point, though they do seem to take (potential) hate crimes somewhat more seriously than others.

How sad is that ... If i am "straight" and assaulted it will be ignored by the police .. but if i say i am gay they will investigate ....

... there is no such thing as "positive discrimination" .....

[[XAP]Bob]

Specific laws are generally easier to prosecute - that’s why they are made (death by careless driving rather than the obvious description - manslaughter)

[Vorpal]

If the police will not prosecute with the laws in place what makes anyone think they will prosecute with yet another "law" ???

Well, that's a good point, though they do seem to take (potential) hate crimes somewhat more seriously than others.

How sad is that ... If i am "straight" and assaulted it will be ignored by the police .. but if i say i am gay they will investigate ....

... there is no such thing as "positive discrimination" .....

I'm not convinced that saying you are gay would make much difference, unless you also claimed that the attacker used gay slurs and homophobic threats.

Also, I don't think that there is any 'positive discrimination', but it's just that those who perpetrate hate crimes are likely to be repeat offenders, and a reported hate crime is likely to represent of a pattern of victimisation. On the other hand, a single reported assault, at least once the victim is no longer in immediate danger, may be difficult to solve or resolve, and may be less likely to be a priority in an under-resourced police service.

I'm not suggesting that's right, but just that it is an understandable way to prioritise.

[landsurfer]

Well, that's a good point, though they do seem to take (potential) hate crimes somewhat more seriously than others.

How sad is that ... If i am "straight" and assaulted it will be ignored by the police .. but if i say i am gay they will investigate ....

... there is no such thing as "positive discrimination" .....

I'm not convinced that saying you are gay would make much difference, unless you also claimed that the attacker used gay slurs and homophobic threats.

Also, I don't think that there is any 'positive discrimination', but it's just that those who perpetrate hate crimes are likely to be repeat offenders, and a reported hate crime is likely to represent of a pattern of victimisation. On the other hand, a single reported assault, at least once the victim is no longer in immediate danger, may be difficult to solve or resolve, and may be less likely to be a priority in an under-resourced police service.

I'm not suggesting that's right, but just that it is an understandable way to prioritise.

I think this the most frightening post I have read on this site. "An understandable way to prioritise" . . That anyone could totally ignore justice (not revenge) to this degree is anathema ... Maybe it's a cultural thing .. I hope ....

[Vorpal]

I think this the most frightening post I have read on this site. "An understandable way to prioritise" . . That anyone could totally ignore justice (not revenge) to this degree is anathema ... Maybe it's a cultural thing .. I hope ....

I'm not ignoring justice, and I clearly said, I was not suggesting that it's right. A huge amount of crime is already ignored, and has been for years. The police tackle the stuff that they are the most confident about being able to do something about, and the stuff that they are told to prioritise.

Traffic crime isn't currently on the list. Other stuff is. It has been clear in my dealings with the police that the stuff I have been concerned about has not been a priority for them; illegal motorcycling, motorists intimidating me while I was cycling, burglary, etc.

Around 15 or 16 years ago, my house was broken into. The only thing the police did was take & lose my only photograph of my cello, which had been stolen. When I called them, I got some vague reassurance that they had a couple of leads, but I was never able to discuss it with the lead officer, or get any detail. They eventually told me they thought it had probably left the country. In other words, it became clear to me that my break-in was not a priority investigation. What were they working on instead? I don't know, but they made some locally publicised drug busts not long after.

Was that justice? Not for me. I don't know what harm the drug dealers and users they busted might have done. I only know how I was harmed, and how unhappy I was at the outcome.

I am certain that if the police can identify an assailant in an assault case, or it looks likely that they can obtain reasonable evidence (i.e. CCTV data), they will persue an investigation. If they can't, or they can't do so easily, what then? Should they analyse possible DNA evidence like they do on the telly? How often do you think that happens in a common assault case?

Tell me what words I should use other than 'prioritise' or how the police should decide what they should and should not do with limited resources.

[Cunobelin]

If the police will not prosecute with the laws in place what makes anyone think they will prosecute with yet another "law" ???

Well, that's a good point, though they do seem to take (potential) hate crimes somewhat more seriously than others.

I always understood it as being an "aggravated" crime. The "hatred" is an additional motivation and therefore makes the crime more serious

[pete75]

We have all the laws we need to address crime against cyclists;
Assault
Common Assault
Transient Assault
Assault with a weapon
and on and on.

Hate crime does not exist, only crime.
If my gay son is assaulted and called a poof it is assault nothing else.
Inventing new names for old crimes is a sop to the LMC and the snowflakes of this world.
"I'm special, if you hit me it's a hate crime" .... Nonsense .. it's assault !!!

If the police will not prosecute with the laws in place what makes anyone think they will prosecute with yet another "law" ???

Hate crime doesn't exist eh? Then what an earth is this - a totally random act of criminal damage?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ed-in.html

[bovlomov]

Tell me what words I should use other than 'prioritise' or how the police should decide what they should and should not do with limited resources.

It's an interesting question, but I'm not sure it plays much part in modern policing.

We know what aren't priorities. Traffic offences, burglary, theft, financial fraud, vandalism... but what are? A recent incident of a car deliberately mounting the pavement and driving at a pedestrian (attempted murder?) couldn't raise a visit ("can you call in on Monday?"). Nor a distressed drunk repeatedly stepping in front of cars ("that'll be for social services").

The police barely have the resources to run even a skeleton service, and in those circumstances I imagine most hate crimes will be given the same priority as most other cimes; i.e. "phone back on Monday".

I don't like the term 'hate crime', for the reasons given by landsurfer, and also:

- the singling out of a special category of victim rather plays into the paranoid fantasies of the angry people who commit this type of offence. Tommy Robinson's fans were desperate to paint him as a victim of censorship, and it took the wind out their sails (a bit) when they were confronted by the fact that he was jailed for contempt of court, and that he had admitted the offence. In other words, it wasn't the PC brigade who put him there.

- the term 'hate crime' hints at outlawing thought. Indeed, I remember Jack Straw pretty much saying that people shouldn't be allowed to think certain things. (Sorry, but I can't remember the details in that case.)

I think it is only relevant (as Cunobelin says) as an aggravating factor. That's because it implies premeditation. If I shout at, or attack, a random person in the street, it's just an episode. If I do the same while shouting specific personal insults, it suggests I have given the matter some thought. That's the aggravating factor, and it would be the same if the victim was a woman, gay, or Muslim, or whether it was a rival football fan.

[Cunobelin]

We have all the laws we need to address crime against cyclists;
Assault
Common Assault
Transient Assault
Assault with a weapon
and on and on.

Hate crime does not exist, only crime.
If my gay son is assaulted and called a poof it is assault nothing else.
Inventing new names for old crimes is a sop to the LMC and the snowflakes of this world.
"I'm special, if you hit me it's a hate crime" .... Nonsense .. it's assault !!!

If the police will not prosecute with the laws in place what makes anyone think they will prosecute with yet another "law" ???

Hate crime doesn't exist eh? Then what an earth is this - a totally random act of criminal damage?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ed-in.html

It would be wrong to make assumptions, but........ there does seem to be a high correlation between this type of crime and poor literacy

[bovlomov]

there does seem to be a high correlation between this type of crime and poor literacy

This is the attack on the socialist bookshop, where the perpetrators recorded their own crime and posted it on the web.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZIfDSkCiv0

The person with the camera seems to be barely literate. As he picks up each book, he is desperately trying to work out what the title means, why it offends him and how it must be linked to paedophiles.

[thirdcrank]

... I think it is only relevant ... as an aggravating factor. ...

It's also a pretty good guide to motive, which may help with detection. The racist daubing on the window posted above wasn't a random example of vandalism for its own sake. This applies more widely. eg a minor nudge which might be accidental takes on a different meaning if its accompanied with racist abuse.

In the past, the police service seemed to get mixed up over this, eg lumping this type of offence with "mindless vandalism" but then, when pressed about that, reacting by going to the other extreme and recording racism automatically when those involved had a different ethnic background.

Kristallnacht was an event motivated by extreme anti-Semitism. Putting a brick through a shop window to steal something is generally motivated by greed, no matter what the ethnic origins of the thief or the retailer.
=========================================
ps on the [derogatory word removed] ignorance, I remember something reported a few years ago when a brass plate with "paediatrician" provoked an attack.

pps the derogatory word removed is a common abbreviation of paedophile.

[pete75]

ps on the <i>[derogatory word removed]</i> ignorance, I remember something reported a few years ago when a brass plate with "paediatrician" provoked an attack.

pps the derogatory word removed is a common abbreviation of paedophile.

Oh yes I remember that. Doubly stupid individuals who thought a pediatrician was a paedophile and then assumed someone of that predilection would advertise the fact on a brass plate outside their premises.

[Cyril Haearn]

We have all the laws we need to address crime against cyclists;
Assault
Common Assault
Transient Assault
Assault with a weapon
and on and on.

Hate crime does not exist, only crime.
If my gay son is assaulted and called a poof it is assault nothing else.
Inventing new names for old crimes is a sop to the LMC and the snowflakes of this world.
"I'm special, if you hit me it's a hate crime" .... Nonsense .. it's assault !!!

If the police will not prosecute with the laws in place what makes anyone think they will prosecute with yet another "law" ???

Hate crime doesn't exist eh? Then what an earth is this - a totally random act of criminal damage?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ed-in.html

It would be wrong to make assumptions, but........ there does seem to be a high correlation between this type of crime and poor literacy

One can read
One can write
The third keeps an eye on those two intellectuals