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Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 11:42am
by reohn2
mhara wrote:'Democracy' rather than anything nastier however, since the only thing stopping people from voting is their own behaviour. Apathy rules OK.

When you come from a country where thousands of people have died to get the freedom to vote it always shocks me, when out canvassing, to hear people say they can't be bothered to vote :shock: .

People who continually whinge about the way things are, but aren't prepared to get involved in affecting how those things are - well, they just mystify me. :?


Me too :(

Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 11:58am
by horizon
Democracy has some in-built problems, particularly ours. It is now well known that the outcome of an election depends on the voting intentions of about 30,000 swing voters in a handful of marginal seats. The rest of us might as well not bother. The need to take hold of the centre ground also drives parties to adopt similar policies - as they say, whoever you vote for, the government always wins.

I would also add that successful politicians are in a class of their own - ambitious achievers who want to get to the top. This means that you will get modernisers who love supermarkets and motorways and the car culture generally - anything that reflects go-ahead success. This means that the rest of us - thoughtful, cycling environmentalists :) - won't ever get a look in, while the roads lobby has a field day whatever the party in power.

I still do vote because it obviously isn't as black and white as that but the fact that Labour now has bigger road building plans than the Tories ever had does prove the point.

Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 12:13pm
by glueman
horizon wrote:I would also add that successful politicians are in a class of their own - ambitious achievers who want to get to the top.


Quite. One Oxbridge don commented that whereas conviction used to enter the choice of party, would-be politicians are much keener to know which will provide the fastest track into parliament nowadays. People seeking political office have more in common with one another than outsiders as my wife noted during a Westminster invitation last year. Sworn enemies are likely to be best buddies away from the spotlight.

Voters tend to avoid visionary, hair shirt policies, economics are determined by global swings not domestic ones and there isn't much posturing ground between any party before the sums cease to add up, hence the apathy.

Posted: 21 Aug 2007, 10:06pm
by Mike Sutton
Manchester Airport could be up for grabs.
Be nice to use the land for low cost housing perhaps?

any thoughts ?

Posted: 19 Oct 2019, 10:49pm
by tb
Is flying by passenger jet about to become the new fur coat of obscenity?

well I posted this in 2007, some 12 years ago.

It's possibly more relevant now. And maybe more people will be giving the topic due consideration ?

I hope so.

Its estimated that this year there will be between 39 million and 45 million passenger flights. In 2019 alone.

maybe go by train.


ps. I have nothing whatsoever to do with xr.

Re: any thoughts ?

Posted: 20 Oct 2019, 12:54pm
by softlips
tb wrote:Is flying by passenger jet about to become the new fur coat of obscenity?

well I posted this in 2007, some 12 years ago.

It's possibly more relevant now. And maybe more people will be giving the topic due consideration ?

I hope so.

Its estimated that this year there will be between 39 million and 45 million passenger flights. In 2019 alone.

maybe go by train.


ps. I have nothing whatsoever to do with xr.


I use train as much as possible. Up to a couple of years ago I was taking over 200 flights a year, will do less than 50 this year.

Re: any thoughts ?

Posted: 20 Oct 2019, 5:42pm
by Oldjohnw
softlips wrote:
tb wrote:Is flying by passenger jet about to become the new fur coat of obscenity?

well I posted this in 2007, some 12 years ago.

It's possibly more relevant now. And maybe more people will be giving the topic due consideration ?

I hope so.

Its estimated that this year there will be between 39 million and 45 million passenger flights. In 2019 alone.

maybe go by train.


ps. I have nothing whatsoever to do with xr.


I use train as much as possible. Up to a couple of years ago I was taking over 200 flights a year, will do less than 50 this year.


That's 4 a week!

Re: any thoughts ?

Posted: 20 Oct 2019, 8:54pm
by brynpoeth
softlips wrote:
tb wrote:Is flying by passenger jet about to become the new fur coat of obscenity?

well I posted this in 2007, some 12 years ago.

It's possibly more relevant now. And maybe more people will be giving the topic due consideration ?

I hope so.

Its estimated that this year there will be between 39 million and 45 million passenger flights. In 2019 alone.

maybe go by train.


ps. I have nothing whatsoever to do with xr.


I use train as much as possible. Up to a couple of years ago I was taking over 200 flights a year, will do less than 50 this year.

Seems a lot, care to explain why? I think one might want to meet the people once, could then upgrade to video conferencing
Some colleagues of mine went to China, glad I didnae go
They did get to visit the Great Wall, mind :wink:

Re: any thoughts ?

Posted: 21 Oct 2019, 10:04am
by softlips
brynpoeth wrote:
softlips wrote:
tb wrote:Is flying by passenger jet about to become the new fur coat of obscenity?

well I posted this in 2007, some 12 years ago.

It's possibly more relevant now. And maybe more people will be giving the topic due consideration ?

I hope so.

Its estimated that this year there will be between 39 million and 45 million passenger flights. In 2019 alone.

maybe go by train.


ps. I have nothing whatsoever to do with xr.


I use train as much as possible. Up to a couple of years ago I was taking over 200 flights a year, will do less than 50 this year.

Seems a lot, care to explain why? I think one might want to meet the people once, could then upgrade to video conferencing
Some colleagues of mine went to China, glad I didnae go
They did get to visit the Great Wall, mind :wink:


I teach cardiologists and cardiac surgeons how to repair the mitral valve on a beating heart using something called MitraClip. I have to stand beside them and advise on how to get the best result in individual patients during the procedure. I’ve done this in over 30 countries. I was very early in the company so there were few of us doing my role. As the technology has taken off around the world the team has grown and there’s much less need for me to assist elsewhere.

I used to fly to London from Manchester rather than take the train because often I’d be in London and then be asked to go to Milan or somewhere at the drop of a hat. If I’d taken the train my car would have been in Doncaster and I’d fly back to Manchester then need to take a two hour train for the 50 mile journey back to Doncaster. I now take the train whenever possible - including Paris, Brussels and Amsterdam - along with my Brompton.

Re: any thoughts ?

Posted: 21 Oct 2019, 10:12am
by Oldjohnw
softlips wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:
softlips wrote:
I use train as much as possible. Up to a couple of years ago I was taking over 200 flights a year, will do less than 50 this year.

Seems a lot, care to explain why? I think one might want to meet the people once, could then upgrade to video conferencing
Some colleagues of mine went to China, glad I didnae go
They did get to visit the Great Wall, mind :wink:


I teach cardiologists and cardiac surgeons how to repair the mitral valve on a beating heart using something called MitraClip. I have to stand beside them and advise on how to get the best result in individual patients during the procedure. I’ve done this in over 30 countries. I was very early in the company so there were few of us doing my role. As the technology has taken off around the world the team has grown and there’s much less need for me to assist elsewhere.

I used to fly to London from Manchester rather than take the train because often I’d be in London and then be asked to go to Milan or somewhere at the drop of a hat. If I’d taken the train my car would have been in Doncaster and I’d fly back to Manchester then need to take a two hour train for the 50 mile journey back to Doncaster. I now take the train whenever possible - including Paris, Brussels and Amsterdam - along with my Brompton.


Decent of you to clarify. I did assume that it was not all pleasure! I spent some time some years ago working at/with the EU. For a while this meant frequent flights to Brussels until the Eurostar become more viable.