Mersey Tunnel

icso
Posts: 1
Joined: 24 Jun 2013, 1:10pm

Mersey Tunnel

Postby icso » 24 Jun 2013, 2:03pm

You may be interested in this FoI enquiry: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/cycling_in_queensway_tunnel_on_s

To summarise, the Queensway tunnel under the Mersey is off-bounds to cyclists during the day on Monday-Friday and summer Sundays. There is no byelaw forbidding cycling on Saturdays. However, the head of tunnel operations has imposed a de facto restriction from 7am-8pm on Saturdays under a byelaw that says:

3 q) The driver of every vehicle within the Tunnels, Tunnels approaches and marshalling areas and every cyclist in the Queensway Tunnel and on the said approaches to the Queensway Tunnel shall not drive a vehicle if he is informed by a Mersey tunnels Police Officer or other authorised officer that in the opinion of that officer he is
unable for any reason to operate his vehicle in a proper and safe manner.


The legislative intent of that byelaw is pretty clearly aimed at individual persons or individual vehicles, not at whole classes of road users, and it seems an abuse by the tunnel authorities to use it to impose a general Saturday restriction, also eroding a clear legislative distinction in the byelaws between Saturdays and other days.

I think this deserves to be challenged. Unfortunately I am not local enough to take this one on, but here's a possible strategy for anyone so minded:

(a) Attempt to ride there between 7am and 8pm on a Saturday.

(b) If challenged, clarify whether you are being prevented on the grounds that the officer believes that you are unable to operate your bike in a proper and safe manner. If the officer confirms this, then obey the officer, because to disobey would break a byelaw and therefore be an offence, but afterwards sue for the price of a ferry ticket -- a nominal sum, but the point is that it couldn't be awarded in your favour without the small claims court finding that the officer had been unreasonable in saying that he believed you couldn't operate your bike properly and safely. If the officer denies that he believes this, then proceed anyway, as then you are not breaking any byelaws and they only have power to exclude you if they reasonably think that you are or would be breaking any.

(c) If you don't get noticed, repeat until you do. Or if they say "all right, but just this once", also repeat.

broadway
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Joined: 9 Mar 2010, 1:49pm
Location: Cheshire

Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby broadway » 24 Jun 2013, 4:45pm

I haven't been through in a while, but it was not pleasant in car.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Mersey+ ... 3,,0,11.23

kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby kwackers » 24 Jun 2013, 4:50pm

I've never seen a bike in it (other than as a special event).
I can't imagine why anyone would cycle through it - I'd think you'd only do it once by accident...

I could imagine you *may* be able to ignore the hassle you will get and make it to the other side by holding the lane, but dodging the mayhem on the other side as the road opens out for the toll booths would be entertaining to say the least.

Pete Owens
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Joined: 7 Jul 2008, 12:52am

Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby Pete Owens » 24 Jun 2013, 8:13pm

kwackers wrote:I can't imagine why anyone would cycle through it.

To get to Birkenhead perhaps.

kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby kwackers » 24 Jun 2013, 9:53pm

Pete Owens wrote:
kwackers wrote:I can't imagine why anyone would cycle through it.

To get to Birkenhead perhaps.

Might be going to Liverpool...

You've got a mile or two of fairly steep climbing with irate commuters trying to figure out how to get past followed by a free for all to get to the booths.
IMO there's a perfectly good ferry service that doesn't require taking your life into your hands.
That's not to say it's not a bit off being denied access but other than a point of principle it's not something I'd lose sleep over.

magabash
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Joined: 22 Jun 2014, 7:06pm

Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby magabash » 24 Jun 2014, 9:39am

You people are funny. And I will be taking the ferry to cross.

Graham O
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Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 7:54am

Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby Graham O » 25 Jun 2014, 5:43am

icso wrote:I think this deserves to be challenged. Unfortunately I am not local enough to take this one on, but here's a possible strategy for anyone so minded:

.


Why does it need to be challenged? Who wants to ride through a car exhaust rich environment just to prove a point? Your are not local, so is this a case of being offended on someone else's behalf?

MichVanNic
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Joined: 23 Jun 2014, 8:56pm
Location: Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
Contact:

Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby MichVanNic » 25 Jun 2014, 5:32pm

Graham O wrote:
icso wrote:I think this deserves to be challenged. Unfortunately I am not local enough to take this one on, but here's a possible strategy for anyone so minded:

.


Why does it need to be challenged? Who wants to ride through a car exhaust rich environment just to prove a point? Your are not local, so is this a case of being offended on someone else's behalf?


Totally agree. Why would anybody want to ride through these tunnels the ferry is far more pleasant.

Is this a case if some cyclists wanting to make a point.

broadway
Posts: 771
Joined: 9 Mar 2010, 1:49pm
Location: Cheshire

Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby broadway » 25 Jun 2014, 6:07pm

Image

JJF
Posts: 295
Joined: 17 Feb 2007, 9:14pm

Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby JJF » 25 Jun 2014, 9:26pm

" We built The Mersey Tunnel boys...
Way back in thirty three...
Dug an 'ole in the ground
Until we found
An 'ole called Wallasey...

RIP Stan Kelly died 16 April 2014

Pete Owens
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Joined: 7 Jul 2008, 12:52am

Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby Pete Owens » 1 Jul 2014, 1:20am

kwackers wrote:
Pete Owens wrote:
kwackers wrote:I can't imagine why anyone would cycle through it.

To get to Birkenhead perhaps.

Might be going to Liverpool...

You've got a mile or two of fairly steep climbing with irate commuters trying to figure out how to get past followed by a free for all to get to the booths.
IMO there's a perfectly good ferry service that doesn't require taking your life into your hands.
That's not to say it's not a bit off being denied access but other than a point of principle it's not something I'd lose sleep over.

Unless, of course you wanted to cross after the last ferry and thus had to spend a sleepless night sitting on the Pier Head waiting for the first crossing in the morning.

wirral_cyclist
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Location: Wirral Merseyside

Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby wirral_cyclist » 1 Jul 2014, 1:29am

Why not just get the train? Merseyrail have no limit on bike numbers outside of peak (at least 6 even then) the escalators and lift are sometimes a pain if you think you must get off at a certain station - but actually all loop line stations are minutes apart on the surface.

Bicycler
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Joined: 4 Dec 2013, 3:33pm

Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby Bicycler » 1 Jul 2014, 1:40am

Pete Owens wrote:
kwackers wrote:You've got a mile or two of fairly steep climbing with irate commuters trying to figure out how to get past followed by a free for all to get to the booths.
IMO there's a perfectly good ferry service that doesn't require taking your life into your hands.
That's not to say it's not a bit off being denied access but other than a point of principle it's not something I'd lose sleep over.

Unless, of course you wanted to cross after the last ferry and thus had to spend a sleepless night sitting on the Pier Head waiting for the first crossing in the morning.

Well you are allowed to cycle through the (Queensway) tunnel overnight. There are restricted times rather than a blanket ban.

To me there are two legitimate objections. Firstly, the way this policy deprives cyclists of a free passage (no charge for cycles) through the tunnel and effectively forces them to pay for a commercial train or ferry service. Secondly, the misuse of the power to exclude unsafe vehicles to prohibit a whole class of road users specifically mentioned in the bylaws as entitled to use the tunnel. Now, okay, not many cyclists will choose to exercise the right to ride through the tunnel but a) there is a principle at stake b) it could set a dangerous precedent elsewhere where statutory bridge/tunnel/ferry operators consider cyclists to be a nuisance

BTW, I once cycled through in the wee hours. It was good fun

beardy
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Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby beardy » 1 Jul 2014, 8:27am

Firstly, the way this policy deprives cyclists of a free passage (no charge for cycles) through the tunnel and effectively forces them to pay for a commercial train or ferry service


Everybody has to pay to cross the Mersey (North of the Runcorn bridge).
It is rather odd that cyclists can get a free passage (in theory) when pedestrians and motorists can not.

kwackers
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Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby kwackers » 1 Jul 2014, 8:28am

beardy wrote:
Firstly, the way this policy deprives cyclists of a free passage (no charge for cycles) through the tunnel and effectively forces them to pay for a commercial train or ferry service


Everybody has to pay to cross the Mersey (North of the Runcorn bridge).
It is rather odd that cyclists can get a free passage (in theory) when pedestrians and motorists can not.

Motorcyclists cross for free too. ;)