Mersey Tunnel

Bicycler
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Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby Bicycler » 1 Jul 2014, 12:19pm

beardy wrote:
Firstly, the way this policy deprives cyclists of a free passage (no charge for cycles) through the tunnel and effectively forces them to pay for a commercial train or ferry service


Everybody has to pay to cross the Mersey (North of the Runcorn bridge).
It is rather odd that cyclists can get a free passage (in theory) when pedestrians and motorists can not.

Well it is fairly common for cyclists to be exempt from tolls. As for pedestrians, I agree the tunnel should have been built with a good quality adjacent path for pedestrians.

kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby kwackers » 1 Jul 2014, 12:46pm

Bicycler wrote:Well it is fairly common for cyclists to be exempt from tolls. As for pedestrians, I agree the tunnel should have been built with a good quality adjacent path for pedestrians.

I can't imagine that would be popular. It's a mile and a half long (2 for Queensway) and there's a significant climb for half of that (not to mention fumes).
Not only that but for most folk the tunnel ends are probably still a fair distance from where they want to go.

It'd add a fair amount of extra cash to the cost of building for probably one pedestrian a week.

Bicycler
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Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby Bicycler » 1 Jul 2014, 1:03pm

If the road tunnel had been built the previous century as proposed there is no way that pedestrians would have been left out of the design. Things were a bit different by the 1920s. The car was the future. Nevertheless there were still much fewer people travelling about by cars and walking was much more of a necessity for many people. It would not have been hard to segregate walkways from the carriageway and fumes whilst still including them in the main tunnel. In reality the Queensway is actually very odd because the road way isn't on the floor of the tunnel and walkways run below. Pedestrians could have been designed into the scheme fairly easily without increasing the size of the tunnel and with minimal cost. I suspect there was reluctance to annoy the railway and ferry companies by giving them competition (they weren't competing with the tunnel's road traffic and didn't seriously oppose the bill)

No I wasn't suggesting we retrospectively add pedestrian walkways. I agree there wouldn't be the demand now

kwackers
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Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby kwackers » 1 Jul 2014, 1:10pm

They do occasionally organise walks through it and there are various other events.

I've cycled through it as part of the Liverpool-Chester bike ride and run through it each year as part of the tunnel 10k although in both cases they close one of the tunnels for the event.

There are organised 'behind the scenes' tours too - keep meaning to do one.

Pete Owens
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Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby Pete Owens » 2 Jul 2014, 12:34am

wirral_cyclist wrote:Why not just get the train? Merseyrail have no limit on bike numbers outside of peak (at least 6 even then) the escalators and lift are sometimes a pain if you think you must get off at a certain station - but actually all loop line stations are minutes apart on the surface.

Although the tran does run for a longer period than the ferry you are still stuffed if you want to go after midnight.

Pete Owens
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Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby Pete Owens » 2 Jul 2014, 12:38am

Bicycler wrote:
Pete Owens wrote:
kwackers wrote:You've got a mile or two of fairly steep climbing with irate commuters trying to figure out how to get past followed by a free for all to get to the booths.
IMO there's a perfectly good ferry service that doesn't require taking your life into your hands.
That's not to say it's not a bit off being denied access but other than a point of principle it's not something I'd lose sleep over.

Unless, of course you wanted to cross after the last ferry and thus had to spend a sleepless night sitting on the Pier Head waiting for the first crossing in the morning.

Well you are allowed to cycle through the (Queensway) tunnel overnight. There are restricted times rather than a blanket ban.

But the complaint of the OP was that the tunnel authorities are effectively imposing a blanket ban by misusing the by-law prohibiting dangerous driving.

Bicycler
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Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby Bicycler » 2 Jul 2014, 1:00am

My interpretation was that it was just about Saturdays
icso wrote:You may be interested in this FoI enquiry: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/cycling_in_queensway_tunnel_on_s

To summarise, the Queensway tunnel under the Mersey is off-bounds to cyclists during the day on Monday-Friday and summer Sundays. There is no byelaw forbidding cycling on Saturdays. However, the head of tunnel operations has imposed a de facto restriction from 7am-8pm on Saturdays under a byelaw that says:


In fact I note that although the bylaws only refer to summer Sundays that isn't quite what their website says:
http://www.merseytunnels.co.uk/nossl/html/faq.php#14
Bicycles are not permitted through the Kingsway Tunnel. Through the Queensway Tunnel, they are not allowed between the hours of 6:00am to 8:00pm, Monday to Friday, 7:00am to 8:00pm on Saturday and 8:00am to 9:00pm on Sunday. Please note, the time limits during a Sunday are only operational between 1st April and 30th September inclusive.
(my emphasis)
So it is possible that they are misusing the same bylaw to exclude cyclists at all times on winter Sundays

FatBat
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Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby FatBat » 2 Jul 2014, 12:06pm

That same FAQ page also says;

Claim: The tunnels could be toll free as part of the national road network

Fact: Only those road projects, including tunnels, built on approval from Government as part of the national road network are paid for indirectly via road tax and general taxation.


Oh dear, someone else who thinks road tax exists.

Deano
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Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby Deano » 26 Jun 2019, 2:50pm

Rode through the tunnel on Saturday. Would not do it again or recommend it to anyone else! All the traffic gave me room but it was still a pretty unpleasant experience. Will get the ferry next time!

kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby kwackers » 26 Jun 2019, 3:02pm

Deano wrote:Rode through the tunnel on Saturday. Would not do it again or recommend it to anyone else! All the traffic gave me room but it was still a pretty unpleasant experience. Will get the ferry next time!

I'd have waited until the 2nd July to post this.

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby Bmblbzzz » 26 Jun 2019, 5:46pm

I can imagine it might be fun at 2am on Saturday, in a group after a nocturnal club ride.

brynpoeth
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Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby brynpoeth » 27 Jun 2019, 5:39am

Graham O wrote:
icso wrote:I think this deserves to be challenged. Unfortunately I am not local enough to take this one on, but here's a possible strategy for anyone so minded:

.


Why does it need to be challenged? Who wants to ride through a car exhaust rich environment just to prove a point? Your are not local, so is this a case of being offended on someone else's behalf?

Being offended on someone else's behalf, +1!

A separate tunnel would be appropriate
Using a ferry may be fun but cycling is better, without waiting

There is a tunnel near me with a shuttle bus, the drivers are awful, they ignore stop signs, the buses are frequent but inconvenient. I cycle a longer way instead, fortunately I have time but if one went that way to work.. :?
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life

Pete Owens
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Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby Pete Owens » 30 Jun 2019, 8:34pm

Nowadays this is even more of an issue as the next crossing up-river at Runcorn is closed for renovation during the week and cycling is banned on the brand new bridge a bit further:
https://www.cyclestreets.net/location/103166/
This means you have to go all the way to Warrington to ride across the Mersey. Quite a diversion:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/53.40932,-2.9834679/53.3908953,-3.0149364/@53.3735119,-2.9085222,11.25z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m10!3m4!1m2!1d-2.6129181!2d53.3769826!3s0x487b0265eb8cb30b:0x14064a0e70543f07!3m4!1m2!1d-2.6987919!2d53.3051346!3s0x487ae317999ad22f:0x2cc207979eb577da!1m0!3e1

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RickH
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Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby RickH » 1 Jul 2019, 12:33am

Pete Owens wrote:Nowadays this is even more of an issue as the next crossing up-river at Runcorn is closed for renovation during the week and cycling is banned on the brand new bridge a bit further:
https://www.cyclestreets.net/location/103166/
This means you have to go all the way to Warrington to ride across the Mersey. Quite a diversion:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/53.40932,-2.9834679/53.3908953,-3.0149364/@53.3735119,-2.9085222,11.25z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m10!3m4!1m2!1d-2.6129181!2d53.3769826!3s0x487b0265eb8cb30b:0x14064a0e70543f07!3m4!1m2!1d-2.6987919!2d53.3051346!3s0x487ae317999ad22f:0x2cc207979eb577da!1m0!3e1

The old Runcorn bridge has a shuttle bus operating (supposed to be every 15 minutes although I can't vouch for that). If you want to go up the Wirral & don't want to use the ferry, another alternative is Merseyrail trains between Birkenhead Hamilton Square & Liverpool James St running every 5 minutes.

kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: Mersey Tunnel

Postby kwackers » 1 Jul 2019, 10:14am

Pete Owens wrote:Nowadays this is even more of an issue as the next crossing up-river at Runcorn is closed for renovation during the week and cycling is banned on the brand new bridge a bit further:
https://www.cyclestreets.net/location/103166/
This means you have to go all the way to Warrington to ride across the Mersey. Quite a diversion:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/53.40932,-2.9834679/53.3908953,-3.0149364/@53.3735119,-2.9085222,11.25z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m10!3m4!1m2!1d-2.6129181!2d53.3769826!3s0x487b0265eb8cb30b:0x14064a0e70543f07!3m4!1m2!1d-2.6987919!2d53.3051346!3s0x487ae317999ad22f:0x2cc207979eb577da!1m0!3e1

The pedestrian section on Runcorn bridge is open surely?
(Haven't been that way for a while so don't know).

In the past when the bridge has been shut for painting or whatever I've simply cycled across the pedestrian section.