Next cycling fatality / serious injury

[andrewk]

Returning home this evening in the dark I passed "a man on a bike" (I hesitate to call him a cyclist) riding slowly along a badly lit street with NO lights and wearing dark clothing. This is not an unusual occurrence, get a few of these most evenings. This man and others like him are just a statistic waiting to happen.
Many here oppose the Police's actions in stopping and fining cyclists. Get real! The CTC forum may be populated by people who take cycling seriously and cycle defensively and responsibly but the roads are not. There are many no lights or RLJs in London who must be brought under control. Their irresponsible actions give the rest of us a bad name and also serve to inflate cycling accident statistics which hinders increased participation.

[irc]

Although the high number of unlit cyclist and low number of serious injuries suggests it isn't that dangerous. That said since lights can be had for the cost of a few pints I wouldn't complain about unlit cyclists being fined.

I don't accept they give other cyclists a bad name though. I'm not responsible for their faults. As a driver I don't hang my head in shame because another driver does something stupid.

Is there any evidence for red light jumping by cyclists causing accidents and a measurable increase in the stats?

[Mike Sales]

As irc says, these mavericks are involved in surprisingly few accidents. I think that this is because they operate in a wheeled pedestrians sort of mode. They ride on the pavement because that way they do not have to clain right of way over cars. They try not to oblige motors to manoeuvre.
Whereas we vehicular cyclists do claim our position on the road, we take the lane.
This causes difficulty for those drivers who try to drive safely around cyclists, which is most of them. They never know quite what a cyclist is trying to do. Will s/he insist on behaving like a pukka road user, or will s/he do something entirely against the HC in an attempt to avoid mixing properly with the traffic?

[TonyR]

Agree with irc. I've not been able to find any evidence that cycling at night is proportionately more dangerous than in the day despite claims of most cyclists being without lights. And what I have found points to it being no more and no less dangerous. I always find it curious that people complain about how many invisible cyclists they see at night while cyclists complain that despite their lights and hi-viz drivers offer SMIDSY.

[mjr]

Dame two replies that are often given online:

1. Bad rider: rider dies. Bad driver: rider dies.

2. I'll apologise for other riders once other drivers apologise for killing Princess Diana.

[kwackers]

I had more people pull out on me when I was using a twin 5W LED light (normally referred to as 'weapons grade') than I've ever had before or since.
I think its basic problem was it identified me as a cyclist and thus I was immediately forgotten about (or spotted much further up the road and then it was presumed that enough time hadn't yet elapsed for me to be a danger.)
Dressed in black, you're probably spotted so late you can't be forgotten about.

Interestingly since I fitted my Lumotech light I've had nobody pull out on me. Now my guess is that because it has a beam and isn't so much a 'point' light source it's less obvious it belongs to a bicycle (it also doesn't flash). I also find people are prepared to wait from much further away.

Then again could just be the way the dice are rolling at the moment...

[gordy]

I'm not really fussed about what other cyclists wear or whether they have lights. It's none of my business.

[andrewk]

As irc says, these mavericks are involved in surprisingly few accidents. I think that this is because they operate in a wheeled pedestrians sort of mode. They ride on the pavement because that way they do not have to clain right of way over cars. ?

BS I'm afraid. Many unlit ones on the road, they may consider themselves as wheeled pedestrians but motorists, bus drivers etc. and the media consider them cyclists.

[andrewk]

I think that there is a problem of lack of comprehension of the facts with regard to kamikazi cyclists. Many posts dismissive of this phenomenon from rural or small / medium town people. It may not happen much in your neck of the woods but its commonplace in London.

[irc]

As irc says, these mavericks are involved in surprisingly few accidents. I think that this is because they operate in a wheeled pedestrians sort of mode. They ride on the pavement because that way they do not have to clain right of way over cars. ?

BS I'm afraid. Many unlit ones on the road, they may consider themselves as wheeled pedestrians but motorists, bus drivers etc. and the media consider them cyclists.

How many of the fatalities in the last month were unlit riders at night or red light jumpers?

[meic]

I think that there is a problem of lack of comprehension of the facts with regard to kamikazi cyclists. Many posts dismissive of this phenomenon from rural or small / medium town people. It may not happen much in your neck of the woods but its commonplace in London.

I am quite pleased to be pretty ignorant of the London situation but I would have thought that one way in which it differed from my rural environment would be an abundance of ambient light.
In street light conditions I have no problem seeing unlit cycles or cars.

[[XAP]Bob]

I think that there is a problem of lack of comprehension of the facts with regard to kamikazi cyclists. Many posts dismissive of this phenomenon from rural or small / medium town people. It may not happen much in your neck of the woods but its commonplace in London.

I am quite pleased to be pretty ignorant of the London situation but I would have thought that one way in which it differed from my rural environment would be an abundance of ambient light.
In street light conditions I have no problem seeing unlit cycles or cars.

or trees, bollards....

[TonyR]

I think that there is a problem of lack of comprehension of the facts with regard to kamikazi cyclists. Many posts dismissive of this phenomenon from rural or small / medium town people. It may not happen much in your neck of the woods but its commonplace in London.

If they're kamikazi cyclists they are dreadfully bad at it. In the UK in 2011 out of over 19,000 cyclists injured on the roads, 53 had a "Not displaying lights at night or in poor visibility" (presumably also includes some motor vehicles and horses) as a contributory factor and 34 had "Cyclist wearing dark clothing at night" (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s50013.xls)

[reohn2]

It's the police's responsibility to do something about unlit cyclists or anyone breaking traffic law FTM,not mine.That said,I will report anyone I see breaking the law if I think they're a danger to anyone else,but reporting anyone to Cheshire or Great Manchester police is utterly useless,as they're a waste of time,with all the efficiency of a snail in a 100m dash.

[drossall]

If they're kamikazi cyclists they are dreadfully bad at it. In the UK in 2011 out of over 19,000 cyclists injured on the roads, 53 had a "Not displaying lights at night or in poor visibility" (presumably also includes some motor vehicles and horses) as a contributory factor and 34 had "Cyclist wearing dark clothing at night" (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s50013.xls)

That's the thing people struggle with. It's the law, so cyclists should use lights, but it doesn't actually seem to be a fraction as dangerous as people assume to ride without them.

I'll stick to my lights, though...